Deconstructing Stock

[D.Johns]

Originally Posted by Mark Yacavone

Ken, Only if they are factory sealed.

BTW, nobody said you have to have a 10 second Stocker.

Like a class called "coyote stock" in the NMRA. Heads up, sealed 5.0 engine and computer. Rule guide for chassis.

That class was also designed to try to keep cost down and get guys with chassis back in the game. Admittedly I liked the concept. Although the engine building is the fun part. The first couple races had 2 cars show up. I haven't followed it closely though.

[Notch1320]

Originally Posted by D.Johns

Like a class called "coyote stock" in the NMRA. Heads up, sealed 5.0 engine and computer. Rule guide for chassis.

That class was also designed to try to keep cost down and get guys with chassis back in the game. Admittedly I liked the concept. Although the engine building is the fun part. The first couple races had 2 cars show up. I haven't followed it closely though.

Exactly! If the NMRA ran this class on the west coast, I would be all over it. Great concept. You will begin to see more and more NMRA racers moving Coyote Stock soon.

[D.Johns]

It is a very cool class. High 10s NA without breaking the bank. Sealed engine ~$8k. I hope to see it thrive. Knowing the guys that helped develop the class they had great intentions. FRPP has been supportive of it from my understanding. I would like to have given it a shot. Too much traveling for me and NMRA has worse politics and terrible payouts then the NHRA IMO.

[Gary Smith]

I pulled the plug due to operating expenses...travel, exorbitant entry fees, fuel, and grade points (see, even NHRA is trying to keep the door closed to newcomers...)

[cicero819]

Come on you guys, you would quit if you couldn't go heads up? I think we could ask Nitro Joe and I'm sure he could enlightened us on the chance of havining a heads up race in elimination. Probably in the 7% chance of running someone at a National event. Stock and Super stock is " BRACKET RACING" 93% of the time! So why take this away from new potential racers, I would rather see fast pure street stock cars(with sticky tires a la BFGoodrich which would jump right in as a sponsor for their tires, what better way to help sell their Drag radial street tires) than snowmobiles or Legend cars( I know they pay their way in but snowmobiles in the summer is just weird, Sorry if you practice this style of racing). I would also stop building my Camaro for stock eliminator in a second and buy a new Mustang or Challenger. This would be a great way to bring new blood without discouraging them hearing about all the ways to get around the rule book. I just want someone to tell why it wouldn't work and have a proper argument to defend their position. Claude p.s. 67 post GS with young men like you we might have a chance. Gary, sorry to hear and I feel your pain.

I think the Legend cars might be cool. I'd rather see that than bone stock cars with drag radials bracket racing. Claude, you are so out of touch with this statement I question if you really like stock racing
Thats great you will stop building your stocker, and buy a brand new car to bracket race. Why not start your own class with the rules you want, and see how many people show up. You think Gary Richards is going to sponsor , and race in your new class? Think anybody will, that has a good car? Or been racing constantly for the last 40 years? Not the guy that raced a few times in 1976, and talking about coming out now before he is to old.
Get a CLUE!


QUOTE=cicero819;333394]Come on you guys, you would quit if you couldn't go heads up? I think we could ask Nitro Joe and I'm sure he could enlightened us on the chance of havining a heads up race in elimination. Probably in the 7% chance of running someone at a National event. Stock and Super stock is " BRACKET RACING" 93% of the time! So why take this away from new potential racers, I would rather see fast pure street stock cars(with sticky tires a la BFGoodrich which would jump right in as a sponsor for their tires, what better way to help sell their Drag radial street tires) than snowmobiles or Legend cars( I know they pay their way in but snowmobiles in the summer is just weird, Sorry if you practice this style of racing). I would also stop building my Camaro for stock eliminator in a second and buy a new Mustang or Challenger. This would be a great way to bring new blood without discouraging them hearing about all the ways to get around the rule book. I just want someone to tell why it wouldn't work and have a proper argument to defend their position. Claude p.s. 67 post GS with young men like you we might have a chance. Gary, sorry to hear and I feel your pain.[/QUOTE]

[Mark Yacavone]

Originally Posted by cicero819

Come on you guys, you would quit if you couldn't go heads up? I think we could ask Nitro Joe and I'm sure he could enlightened us on the chance of havining a heads up race in elimination. Probably in the 7% chance of running someone at a National event. Stock and Super stock is " BRACKET RACING" 93% of the time! So why take this away from new potential racers, I would rather see fast pure street stock cars(with sticky tires a la BFGoodrich which would jump right in as a sponsor for their tires, what better way to help sell their Drag radial street tires) than snowmobiles or Legend cars( I know they pay their way in but snowmobiles in the summer is just weird, Sorry if you practice this style of racing). I would also stop building my Camaro for stock eliminator in a second and buy a new Mustang or Challenger. This would be a great way to bring new blood without discouraging them hearing about all the ways to get around the rule book. I just want someone to tell why it wouldn't work and have a proper argument to defend their position. Claude p.s. 67 post GS with young men like you we might have a chance. Gary, sorry to hear and I feel your pain.

Claude, The threat of a heads up run is what keeps the performance level up, hence the entertainment and appeal of S/SS.
I'm sure you remember, you used to have to win class to race in the eliminator..There were no heads up runs possible at Nationals.
Nowadays, class wins don't pay anything at all most of the time. The big money and emphasis is on the eliminator win.
I f you take away the threat of a heads up, I'm afraid you'd see a bunch of slug 12.20 305 cars and 10.90 Camaros with Pep Boys long blocks in A/SA.. Who wants to see something like that?
What would be the point of spending the extra money on a good engine?
...And don't forget the adverse effect on the few remaining sponsors.

I probably should have named this thread something else. It was not my intention to advocate a change to any current class car.
I was suggesting some kind of entry level deal, possibly within Stock Eliminator.
I like your Pure Stock idea , but it will never fly...Too much tech involved.

How about a late model index deal?
6-8 years old rolling cut off...Car gets too old , you move it up to Stock.
Stock appearing , no hood scoops, no tires sticking out, no down track throttle stops.
13.00, 12.50, and 12.00 indexes
5/10ths pro tree...Deep staging allowed
Charge 'em $100 for a divisional , Winner and R/U Wallys and some cash... (Bracket racers pay $100 now for the Wally races)
Beats the hell out of snowmobiles and dwarf cars,..in my opinion

[cicero819]

Originally Posted by Mark Yacavone

Claude, The threat of a heads up run is what keeps the performance level up, hence the entertainment and appeal of S/SS.
I'm sure you remember, you used to have to win class to race in the eliminator..There were no heads up runs possible at Nationals.
Nowadays, class wins don't pay anything at all most of the time. The big money and emphasis is on the eliminator win.
I f you take away the threat of a heads up, I'm afraid you'd see a bunch of slug 12.20 305 cars and 10.90 Camaros with Pep Boys long blocks in A/SA.. Who wants to see something like that?
What would be the point of spending the extra money on a good engine?
...And don't forget the adverse effect on the few remaining sponsors.

I probably should have named this thread something else. It was not my intention to advocate a change to any current class car.
I was suggesting some kind of entry level deal, possibly within Stock Eliminator.
I like your Pure Stock idea , but it will never fly...Too much tech involved.

How about a late model index deal?
6-8 years old rolling cut off...Car gets too old , you move it up to Stock.
Stock appearing , no hood scoops, no tires sticking out, no down track throttle stops.
13.00, 12.50, and 12.00 indexes
5/10ths pro tree...Deep staging allowed
Charge 'em $100 for a divisional , Winner and R/U Wallys and some cash... (Bracket racers pay $100 now for the Wally races)
Beats the hell out of snowmobiles and dwarf cars,..in my opinion

Todd, I have a lot of respect for racers such as yourself who has work hard and spent his hard earned money racing on their combination(your GTO) and your new old Firebird but all I'm saying,is make an argument instead of saying that I'm not informed or out of touch on bringing in new people into stock or super stock, I'm looking at this as a minor league or entry level. I'm not saying to bring it at a National level but at the Divisional Level. Todd a lot of stockers are 40 and 50 yrs old, some kids do not even know who made the cars that are being race now. Please a proper response with some thought behind it would be appreciated. If we all do nothing you can be sure to be racing the same white hairs all the time(I belong to the no hair). Maybe Gary Richards might not race in that class but maybe his wife of grand kids might. Thanks. Mark, like usual you have the wisdom, maybe we can vote you in to replace Crampton. I have to explained that I didn't want to touch stock eliminator, I'm all for the way it's set up right now. I understand also that the chance of having a heads up guarantees the quality and effort will be at it's max. I might of made a wrong turn and confused your original post when someone suggested Pure Stock. Mark, what are you working on, still have the Land Shark? Claude

I think to run a class this way, you need tech enforcement to take radical steps. Like in NASCAR , they supply the ecu's at the begining of the race. Then they take them back at the end. Maybe a claimer rule for the engines. Guys will take them apart and reseal back up when they are done doing the work. I think the word affordable and heads up can not be mentioned in the same sentence . It's nice to dream!

Originally Posted by D.Johns

Like a class called "coyote stock" in the NMRA. Heads up, sealed 5.0 engine and computer. Rule guide for chassis.

That class was also designed to try to keep cost down and get guys with chassis back in the game. Admittedly I liked the concept. Although the engine building is the fun part. The first couple races had 2 cars show up. I haven't followed it closely though.