Ford 390 FE help

pmrphil · 07-01-2012, 09:45 AM

If you're changing the cam you HAVE to use new lifters, have you checked into having the old cam redrilled and install the dowel 180 deg. off? It's common practice to double dowel Ford cams when there is high spring pressures, so you should be able to re-use the cam you have now, just don't forget to keep the lifters in order.

Robbie Welch · 07-01-2012, 09:19 PM

Thanks for the reply Phil. Some of the mystery has been solved. The cam dowel hole had a cut off bolt in it to make the dowel long enough to contact the eccentric (it wasn't out of the eccentric .250 like I thought). I did keep the lifters in order but I thank I'm going to put a hydraulic cam in it (its a street car). Thanks Rory and Phil for the help

Dinsdale · 07-01-2012, 10:54 PM

I'm not a big fan of Hydro cams but they do make some good hydro rollers nowaways. I'd suggest contacting this guy for some help in choosing what you need. He's also got a great book out.

survivalmotorsports.com

Rory McNeil · 07-02-2012, 02:26 AM

Robbie, if the obstruction is indeed a cut down bolt, in the cam dowel hole, how about trying to knock it out by removing the camshaft, and tapping it nose down against a bench or other hard surface. If that won`t remove it, you could always try drilling it out, at least enough to get a safe amount of pin engagement. It sounds like the dowel pin in your cam was the shorter 2 piece eccentric version, being used with a 1 piece eccentric.

Robbie Welch · 07-02-2012, 05:52 AM

The cut off bolt came out when I took the cam out. The cam dowel hole is .640 deep now I thought the .325 wasn't deep enough. The only problem now is the dowel hole has a small amount of movemment in it. Like I said it's a street car and he doesn't need the valve train noise. Thanks again for the help Robbie

BlueOval Ralph · 07-02-2012, 08:51 AM

You can save a cam with a broken dowel pin or bolt by have them burnt out called eloxing not sure spelling is correct not cheap and it will not change the size of the hole. I have had a lot of this done in the past. Hand a broken tap removed form a small block Ford oil galley.

rawhide · 07-02-2012, 02:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robbie Welch

The cut off bolt came out when I took the cam out. The cam dowel hole is .640 deep now I thought the .325 wasn't deep enough. The only problem now is the dowel hole has a small amount of movemment in it. Like I said it's a street car and he doesn't need the valve train noise. Thanks again for the help Robbie

Robbie,
The dowel pin needs to be snug in the cam. This is important in Fords due to the bolt being in the center of the cam. If it had three bolts off center like a Cheby it would not be as important. If the dowel is loose it will allow the timing gear to move enough to loosen the bolt. When I was building engines I used two dowels in most applications although this was mostly 429/460 style engines.
regards

Mike Taylor 3601 · 07-02-2012, 06:51 PM

Technically .325 is deep enough pin is .312 dia. it was deeper than the dia.
The dowel pin does'nt keep gear from moving. The bolt/washer clamp the gear and cam together if dowel breaks something else is wrong,the dowel is only to line gear and cam up not to keep from rotating .Cloyes told me that and I did'nt think that was right,so I checked w/Tim @ bullet/ultradyne and he said that was right.
So then I started to think about it alot of 4.6 dohc fords don't have anything in keyways of gears that run between cams,LS1, LT-1 and lot of other engines don't have keyways&keys for the balancers(dampners)so then it started to seem more correct,then I got to thinking how does dbl. key crank on blown engine work?
You know the tiny woodruff key could'nt keep the spider from turning on the cam adapter on Jesel belt but the clamping pressure/taper keeps them from rotating

Don't try to drill broken pin completely out, drill and tap hole in the pin then use a bolt& nut w/ a spacer that your pin will fit inside of,and tighten nut against spacer to pull broken pin out. You can also do this on broken pressed in rocker stud,etc.

To make long story short make sure your dowel is'nt holding anything from sitting flat,that washer,bolt etc are all stong enough and torqued enough.
Mike Taylor 3601

07-01-2012, 09:45 AM	#1
pmrphil Member Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: CT Posts: 462 Likes: 1,823 Liked 348 Times in 152 Posts	Re: Ford 390 FE help If you're changing the cam you HAVE to use new lifters, have you checked into having the old cam redrilled and install the dowel 180 deg. off? It's common practice to double dowel Ford cams when there is high spring pressures, so you should be able to re-use the cam you have now, just don't forget to keep the lifters in order. __________________ Phil Molski PMR Performance S/C 1623

07-01-2012, 09:19 PM	#2
Robbie Welch Live Reporter Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Golden Beach Maryland Posts: 1,234 Likes: 55 Liked 262 Times in 124 Posts	Re: Ford 390 FE help Thanks for the reply Phil. Some of the mystery has been solved. The cam dowel hole had a cut off bolt in it to make the dowel long enough to contact the eccentric (it wasn't out of the eccentric .250 like I thought). I did keep the lifters in order but I thank I'm going to put a hydraulic cam in it (its a street car). Thanks Rory and Phil for the help

07-01-2012, 10:54 PM	#3
Dinsdale Member Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Canada Posts: 313 Likes: 0 Liked 6 Times in 2 Posts	Re: Ford 390 FE help I'm not a big fan of Hydro cams but they do make some good hydro rollers nowaways. I'd suggest contacting this guy for some help in choosing what you need. He's also got a great book out. survivalmotorsports.com __________________ Dale Posnick

07-02-2012, 02:26 AM	#4
Rory McNeil VIP Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: from Vancouver BC Canada, now in Nova Scotia Posts: 1,311 Likes: 317 Liked 1,105 Times in 303 Posts	Re: Ford 390 FE help Robbie, if the obstruction is indeed a cut down bolt, in the cam dowel hole, how about trying to knock it out by removing the camshaft, and tapping it nose down against a bench or other hard surface. If that won`t remove it, you could always try drilling it out, at least enough to get a safe amount of pin engagement. It sounds like the dowel pin in your cam was the shorter 2 piece eccentric version, being used with a 1 piece eccentric. __________________ NHRA 6390 STK M/S 85 Mustang

07-02-2012, 05:52 AM	#5
Robbie Welch Live Reporter Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Golden Beach Maryland Posts: 1,234 Likes: 55 Liked 262 Times in 124 Posts	Re: Ford 390 FE help The cut off bolt came out when I took the cam out. The cam dowel hole is .640 deep now I thought the .325 wasn't deep enough. The only problem now is the dowel hole has a small amount of movemment in it. Like I said it's a street car and he doesn't need the valve train noise. Thanks again for the help Robbie

07-02-2012, 08:51 AM	#6
BlueOval Ralph Banned Join Date: Feb 2008 Posts: 852 Likes: 0 Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: Ford 390 FE help You can save a cam with a broken dowel pin or bolt by have them burnt out called eloxing not sure spelling is correct not cheap and it will not change the size of the hole. I have had a lot of this done in the past. Hand a broken tap removed form a small block Ford oil galley.

07-02-2012, 06:51 PM	#8
Mike Taylor 3601 VIP Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Somerset,Ky Posts: 1,374 Likes: 358 Liked 308 Times in 103 Posts	Re: Ford 390 FE help Technically .325 is deep enough pin is .312 dia. it was deeper than the dia. The dowel pin does'nt keep gear from moving. The bolt/washer clamp the gear and cam together if dowel breaks something else is wrong,the dowel is only to line gear and cam up not to keep from rotating .Cloyes told me that and I did'nt think that was right,so I checked w/Tim @ bullet/ultradyne and he said that was right. So then I started to think about it alot of 4.6 dohc fords don't have anything in keyways of gears that run between cams,LS1, LT-1 and lot of other engines don't have keyways&keys for the balancers(dampners)so then it started to seem more correct,then I got to thinking how does dbl. key crank on blown engine work? You know the tiny woodruff key could'nt keep the spider from turning on the cam adapter on Jesel belt but the clamping pressure/taper keeps them from rotating Don't try to drill broken pin completely out, drill and tap hole in the pin then use a bolt& nut w/ a spacer that your pin will fit inside of,and tighten nut against spacer to pull broken pin out. You can also do this on broken pressed in rocker stud,etc. To make long story short make sure your dowel is'nt holding anything from sitting flat,that washer,bolt etc are all stong enough and torqued enough. Mike Taylor 3601