The new Dodge Dart ? not what BS

[Alan Roehrich]

New cars are absurdly expensive, all of them are. No new racer is likely to spend that kind of money. Not even to buy a salvage car, rebuild it to a race car, and race it.

The rules of Stock Eliminator and Super Stock do not appeal to the majority of racers, especially not the majority of new racers. They like bolting on big superchargers, or swapping in crate motors or stroker motors, bolting on ported heads and intakes, installing huge cams, or adding nitrous, and going really fast. You are never going to get those people to race class cars. They're not coming. Forget it, stop worrying about it, stop trying to drag them in, they're not coming. We have rules, and they hate rules.

At some point, people need to grasp reality. Stock Eliminator and Super Stock are very limited and narrowly defined classes that appeal strictly to a select and small group of racers of a very specific type. You will never liberalize the rules of Stock Eliminator and Super Stock to draw even a small segment of "the masses". All you will ever accomplish is the complete destruction of Stock Eliminator and Super Stock. You cannot "save" Stock Eliminator and Super Stock by screwing around with the rules to loosen them to allow more modifications and allow more cars. All you will ever accomplish is driving off the core competitors, and forever changing the classes until they no longer even remotely resemble what they actually are, or rather, were.

It does not matter what "new" car you let in. It doesn't matter if you let in a Testarossa and a Toyota. You will never get all those people you think you are going to attract to race class cars. They don't like class racing. We have rules, and they hate rules.

If you want to "save" Stock Eliminator and Super Stock, the first thing to do is stop screwing with the rules and liberalizing them to allow more expensive parts and modifications, as well as bogus combinations. The next thing to do is start making it more fun and more affordable. It probably cannot be done with NHRA in charge. But that is the only way to really save the classes.

[Run to Rund]

The new Dart is basically an Alfa Romeo. In the Specs section:

"Three technologically advanced and efficient engines: 2.0L Tigershark™four-cylinder (160 hp), 1.4L Intercooled MultiAir Turbo (160 hp) and 2.4L Tigershark™ MultiAir II 4-cylinder
Unmistakable Dodge Design with Alfa Romeo®DNA "

on this website:
http://www.dodge.com/en/2013/dart/?s...nel=paidsearch

[goinbroke2]

All I will say is careful what you wish for. Remember "wouldn't it be cool if the factories were involved in S/SS again?" Now they are and all I hear is bitching (right or wrong)
Ask for more cars in the guide (which I say yes X 1000) and then listen to the bitching when a 350 camaro is smoked by a mostly stock AWD twin turbo Taurus. (Yes they run in the 12's off the showroom floor with the A/C on and a full tank of gas)
My point is, keep the rules they way they are, fill the guide, put realistic HP ratings on them. (the biggest bone of contention)
I agree a lot of "young guys" don't want the rules etc but there is a lot of outsiders looking in that can't afford a top dollar stocker. That's why pure stock is popular (although not well enough advertised imo) How come i see half a dozen new mustangs and even a couple camaro's running at the tracks on the weekends but they don't try out Stock or pure stock or anything besides brackets?
I think some are looking at this the wrong way. When you say stocker, what do you envision? A $50,000 car, $10,000 trailer plus tow vehicle etc, etc,etc.
Ask someone in 1960 what a stocker is and they say something they drive every day and race on the weekend...like a bracket car today!
Who can take their daily driver and dump huge $$$ in it and only race it? NOBODY! So if you want in this class, you need a tow veh and all the crap that goes with it.

1. Fill the guide with everthing sold.
2. Promote Pure Stock for street driven cars with minimal mods.
3. Have a soft enough index that street cars can make their index and shoe polish race.
(like a bracket race with a minimum dial unless heads up of course)
4. Welcome the new guys and accept them.
5. Watch them move up after a few years and race in Stock or SS.

I hate imports so even if it was just detroit filling the class guide, that would work or at least show if there is an interest. New focus running a dart heads up, think that wouldn't draw attention to young guys? Yeah it's a couple of ****box fwd cars to most, but not to the owners who like them and bought them!

[Bruce Noland]

Originally Posted by Alan Roehrich

New cars are absurdly expensive, all of them are. No new racer is likely to spend that kind of money. Not even to buy a salvage car, rebuild it to a race car, and race it.

The rules of Stock Eliminator and Super Stock do not appeal to the majority of racers, especially not the majority of new racers. They like bolting on big superchargers, or swapping in crate motors or stroker motors, bolting on ported heads and intakes, installing huge cams, or adding nitrous, and going really fast. You are never going to get those people to race class cars. They're not coming. Forget it, stop worrying about it, stop trying to drag them in, they're not coming. We have rules, and they hate rules.

At some point, people need to grasp reality. Stock Eliminator and Super Stock are very limited and narrowly defined classes that appeal strictly to a select and small group of racers of a very specific type. You will never liberalize the rules of Stock Eliminator and Super Stock to draw even a small segment of "the masses". All you will ever accomplish is the complete destruction of Stock Eliminator and Super Stock. You cannot "save" Stock Eliminator and Super Stock by screwing around with the rules to loosen them to allow more modifications and allow more cars. All you will ever accomplish is driving off the core competitors, and forever changing the classes until they no longer even remotely resemble what they actually are, or rather, were.

It does not matter what "new" car you let in. It doesn't matter if you let in a Testarossa and a Toyota. You will never get all those people you think you are going to attract to race class cars. They don't like class racing. We have rules, and they hate rules.

If you want to "save" Stock Eliminator and Super Stock, the first thing to do is stop screwing with the rules and liberalizing them to allow more expensive parts and modifications, as well as bogus combinations. The next thing to do is start making it more fun and more affordable. It probably cannot be done with NHRA in charge. But that is the only way to really save the classes.

Good work Alan!

[Keith 944]

Originally Posted by Bruce Noland

Good work Alan!

X 2 I think Alan nailed that one on the head

[ss3011]

Built in Belvedere, IL

[Billy Nees]

Alan, I agree with everything you said to the letter. I'll still stand pat on what I posted.

[Sean Marconette]

Like Alan stated, the majority of people do not like rules. Just comments from people at a bracket race, or people at work. The first thing that is asked is how fast does the car go and how big is the engine. As soon as I start explaining the rules that we have to follow, they think how stupid are you for doing that. The money spent to go "slow" instead of throwing parts at it, is the normal mind set. I always explain class racing as a "thinking persons" class. Go fast parts is what most people relate to.

Being able to race a car that you see on the street is what has become a problem in drag racing altogether.
Sean

[Ron Ortiz]

I believe what Billy and Alan is right on the money. Just one small alteration is necessary.

The imports (Honda, Toyota, Nissan, and even Hyundai) need to be in there too. It still is a horsepower claim from the manufacturer in the Guide, just ask FFFord & CCChrysler.

There are way to many people that own these type of cars out there to not include them, it will increase your base by more than 15%. Hey, do you want our class to survive or not. Get real, it is 2012, this is not our little reserved sport/hobby anymore, we need to expand.

Wonder what the NeesMan could do with an Elantra 1797 cc

Ron Ortiz
U/SA #1 qualifier

[Alan Roehrich]

If you talk to the import fans, they're no more interested in Stock Eliminator or Super Stock than the other guys. They don't like the rules.

We don't need to "expand". You can't please everyone, you can't be all things to all people.

What we need to do is concentrate on making and keeping the current participants happy and keeping them racing. Getting them to race more is the real goal.

People keep trying to go outside the current group and "recruit" participants by "expanding" the class guide or liberalizing the rules. It does not work that way.

The best "recruiting" tool is a satisfied happy participant. It's just like running a business. It's cheaper, easier, and better to retain a customer than it is to replace him. That happy customer is the best tool you can ever hope to have for getting new customers. It's the same with racing. If you want class racing to survive, or more to the point, recover and thrive, treat the current racers better. Give them every reason to race more. Because that racer wanting to race more is the best possible "advertisement" to draw new racers. New people are going to be interested in class racing, because they're wanting to find out why that guy can't wait to spend his time and money on a class car and going racing.

Continually altering Stock Eliminator and Super Stock in an effort to "include" or "recruit" people who not only don't race the cars already in the class, but more to the point don't like the style of racing or the rules, is pointless and futile. You do that, and at best, you risk alienating the current participants while maybe drawing 1 in 1000 possible new participants, for a short time. At worst, you start driving away the core racers, and get nothing from those you hope to attract.

If you're selling grilled beef hamburgers and fries, and have a decent number of customers, you don't switch to tofu and turkey burgers with celery sticks, hoping to gain new business. It does not make sense. It just puts you right out of business, because those customers who came for a great burger and fries are not coming back, they're going somewhere else to get what they wanted, or they go for fried chicken or pizza. You end up with a lot of tofu, turkey, and celery. And fairly good sized helping of egg on your face.