Bring back super/mod...

[Dick Butler]

With all the support here and good ideas they are varied levels of motor cost and complexity. Should a poll be taken of most important factors for the cars? Cost, simplicity by sealing them, claimer heads ok, etc?

[randy wilson]

Dick, my vote has got to be claimer heads, with a $500 exchange. It's simple, and logical. Also, it doesn't take hard work out of the equation. Sealed, or claimer motors destroys all that. Also, heads is what keeps most out of comp. They change designs seems like weekly. Also, I think it's important to keep the visual performance parts to a minimal, as we've discussed. I think a spec tire, fuel, and possibly rear gear, as long as it's entertaining. I love the fact that brodix evened up the competition, to where no one can bitch. Also, things I've brought up would keep valve train cost affordable.

[SSDiv6]

Originally Posted by Dick Butler

With all the support here and good ideas they are varied levels of motor cost and complexity. Should a poll be taken of most important factors for the cars? Cost, simplicity by sealing them, claimer heads ok, etc?

Just like Randy said, let's start with a Spec cylinder head:

http://www.brodix.com/heads/spec.php

Then: no Titanium valves, no external oil pump, no sheet metal intake only cast intake, one single 750 CFM carb, no crank trigger, no external vacuum pump, any compression, limit tire width to 11.5", 358 CID max engine. Must maintain OEM cylinder bore spacing, OEM engine deck height and engine block must have a OEM part number.

I think this would maintain an even competition and keep costs down for the class.

[randy wilson]

I agree, but that would put cars in SS\AS. I have no problem with any of this, but I'm only one person.

[randy wilson]

Also, the OEM part number thing, probably would add cost to the engine. The SHP stuff from dart is cheaper. I'm so glad someone agrees on the brodix spec deal. Let's face it, they've had lots of years to work it out. And you know they would be on board big time.

[randy wilson]

Also, on the crank, could limit it to 2 inch rod journal, with a max, .060 undersize. And ring widths, say 1\16, 1\16 3\16. But all of this would require tear down, and that's what I want to avoid. Just some thoughts.

[Michael Kilduff]

Originally Posted by SSDiv6

Just like Randy said, let's start with a Spec cylinder head:

http://www.brodix.com/heads/spec.php

Then: no Titanium valves, no external oil pump, no sheet metal intake only cast intake, one single 750 CFM carb, no crank trigger, no external vacuum pump, any compression, limit tire width to 11.5", 358 CID max engine. Must maintain OEM cylinder bore spacing, OEM engine deck height and engine block must have a OEM part number.

I think this would maintain an even competition and keep costs down for the class.

Excellent ideas.

I don't think giving weight breaks for automatics would be in the best interest of the class. I understand you need participation but the thing that would make a class like this unique-and popular-would be higher rpms and manual transmissions.

At our local tracks the only time a significant number of fans show up is for Pro Mod shows or when the Classic Gearjammers are in town.

I think a 50 lb weight reduction for pre 1973 cars would benfit the class as well.

I really doubt the NHRA would have any interest in such a class-look at how long it took them to bring Pro Mod into the program and they still treat those guys/girls like second rate citizens.

A class like this would certainly have to start at the grass roots level, and that won't be easy. If some people really want to do something like this I'm willing to help in any way possible-I'm in South East NC. I've got one car that could fit this bill, just tell me the rules before it gets to the chassis shop this winter.

And I gotta say I am very suprised Doyle Evans hasn't posted in this thread yet. I know he's reading it and has a '67 Vette just itching for a class like this
I

[randy wilson]

I think a weight break for older model cars is way over due. I love clutch cars, but I'm trying to get interest. I think getting brodix, and say, Drag Illustrated pushing this would help.

[Robert Swartz]

Originally Posted by Michael Kilduff

Excellent ideas.

I don't think giving weight breaks for automatics would be in the best interest of the class. I understand you need participation but the thing that would make a class like this unique-and popular-would be higher rpms and manual transmissions.

At our local tracks the only time a significant number of fans show up is for Pro Mod shows or when the Classic Gearjammers are in town.

I think a 50 lb weight reduction for pre 1973 cars would benfit the class as well.

I really doubt the NHRA would have any interest in such a class-look at how long it took them to bring Pro Mod into the program and they still treat those guys/girls like second rate citizens.

A class like this would certainly have to start at the grass roots level, and that won't be easy. If some people really want to do something like this I'm willing to help in any way possible-I'm in South East NC. I've got one car that could fit this bill, just tell me the rules before it gets to the chassis shop this winter.

And I gotta say I am very suprised Doyle Evans hasn't posted in this thread yet. I know he's reading it and has a '67 Vette just itching for a class like this
I

OK, I've read almost all of this, sounds very interesting. Would it work in this day and age? It's not 1977 any longer. Yes, it would need to be a grass roots level class. Tod and I have a car that would be a good candidate for this. Our 79 Firebird crate project. It's far from completed.

What kind of hybrid are we seeking here? Stocker type suspensions with "spec type" engines? Super Stock style suspension with same? Converted bracket cars, that really opens a can of worms.

Just a thought, come up with a basic set of "rules" as a guide. Make it a Class Racer stickey? Then we can bench race and tweak them?

[Michael Kilduff]

Originally Posted by Robert Swartz

OK, I've read almost all of this, sounds very interesting. Would it work in this day and age? It's not 1977 any longer. Yes, it would need to be a grass roots level class. Tod and I have a car that would be a good candidate for this. Our 79 Firebird crate project. It's far from completed.

What kind of hybrid are we seeking here? Stocker type suspensions with "spec type" engines? Super Stock style suspension with same? Converted bracket cars, that really opens a can of worms.

Just a thought, come up with a basic set of "rules" as a guide. Make it a Class Racer stickey? Then we can bench race and tweak them?

I think the class would work very well today. Heads up drag racing is alive and okay-look at the ADRL, the 10.5 stuff, drag radial 275, and all of the Pro Modified associations and events. But consider this-

When the 'fast street car' stuff really got legs in the mid 1990's the main attractions were 'heads up racing' and almost anyone could fford to do it.

10 years ago, at least in the south east, the 'automatic/powerglide Pro Mods' caught on big. Most of these cars were Top Sportsman cars, they were a notch or two below the pro Mod cars.

IMO this series caught on largely because the powerglide could only handle so much power-it made fast heads up racing affordable for lots of people. The glide was the buffer so the budget guy could race with the big money guy.

Fast forward to about 3 years ago- Lenco and others started building powerglide parts that will take 3000 plus HP, and the fields have gotten smaller around here-because now the 80K engines can be used and not many folks can really afford that-or the maintenence that comes with throwing the kitchen sink into the mix.

The 'Fast Street Car' thing is still pretty strong, but not many people can afford to do it now compared to 10 years ago. A high school friend of mine got into the street car thing-10.5 outlaw-in the beginning. He had a very modest budget and even built the car (his first) himself. Now he can't even qualify and told me how he walked into a competitors trailer a few years ago and the guy had 3 600 inch Fords in the trailer and one on the car.

The thing about this Super Modified deal is that with some strategic rules in place the class could be affordable for a lot of people. Put it in the hands of the drivers and the tuners, not the mega bucks guy. The $500 head claimer thing will keep things from getting out of control better than probably anything else imo.

As for the suspension set ups-

Someone, I think SSDIV6, mentioned that the HP for a 358 with the Brodix spec head without all the dry sump/crank trigger etc stuff would probably make around 650 HP, a stock type suspension can handle that. Look at Anthony B's black '69 AA/SA 427 Camaro with slapper bars, for ex.