The damage recently done - Page 2

super trick · 09-07-2012, 02:59 PM

What something Mr.lee doesn't want to talk about? The 4x keyboard racer champ didnt want the cat let out of the bag. Why? Because he wanted to get on this forum ( and 5 others ) and tell everybody how great and smart he and the other AMC racers are. Well just one thing make sure you give a link to NHRA Blueprint specification page for AMC. Just for a reminder of why the AMC Class cars seem to run so well !!!

BlueOval Ralph · 09-07-2012, 03:17 PM

Base 429 used the Autolite carb. The 351-C NEVER used Holleys in production I have copy's of the 70, 71, and 72 all Boss 351 and 351 CJs used the Autolite 4300D

Quote:

Originally Posted by Billy Nees

429 CJ got Q-Jet, 429 SCJ got 780. Base 351 got Autolite, Boss 351 and 351 CJ got 780. Different manifolds and cams.

JRyan · 09-07-2012, 03:48 PM

Ralph is correct. The Boss came with an autolite carb that is really expensive and somewhat hard too find. We need one to restore our boss. No holley on the 71-72 351 cars. However, we do get to use one in stock.

Duane Eiskant II · 09-07-2012, 04:00 PM

How many of the 4300D's do you need? I think i have about 4 or 5 still. Can supply them to you anyway you want. Email me Dee9275@yahoo.com

Dwight Southerland · 09-07-2012, 04:13 PM

Billy -
Not much different than the Shelby specs fiasco that we all went through for the '67 428s, or the .529 cam for the FE Fords, or the current D4B Edlebrock manifold for a 273 MoPar, or the F5WE heads for the 428 CJs, or Edelbrock heads/World Products/Batten/Indy/Canfield heads for everything, or the NASCAR hemi cars, or open chamber aluminum heads for all '66-'71 high perf big block Chevrolets, or 780 Holley carbs on 390 Fords, or . . . . .

The '71-'72 Clevelands ALL got the aluminum manifold and 780 Holleys, not just the CJ and Boss. Have you ever seen a conocurs Mustang with a Holley carb and aluminum manifold?? No, because they weren't made. (Not picking on the Fords; just an example)

I have seen the time when I would be right there beside you waving the banner for purity, but I believe that's a waste of time. As a good friend of mine who was the second best tech man I have ever known told me once, "If it passes tech, it's legal. That doesn't mean it is 'stock'. What's legal is what is in the book." That's where we are.

And what about the current offerings from the big three? Paper engines, paper cars, paper power ratings.

jmantle · 09-07-2012, 04:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Billy Nees

by a handful of AMC racers and the NHRA Tech Dept. to Stock and SS eliminators is FAR worse and FAR more reaching than any of the new Factory Specials will ever be! The Tech Dept. might just as well do away with Stock and SS right now, give us all 780 Holleys, aluminium intakes and heads and .477 lift cams and call us what we are fast becoming, ET-2.
Look it up yourselves, 66-72 AMC blueprint specs. And nobody got notified about a change.

This is a screwup, group 19 parts are not "stock", never were and never should be.
Flat top pistons were never available in a 360 AMC either. I don't know who manages to convince NHRA to keep bending the rules but for the sake of the sport, this needs to be better policed. It's not just the AMC guys, I can find lots to complain about with the other makes as well.

Jim Mantle

Paul Wong · 09-07-2012, 04:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dwight Southerland

Billy -
Not much different than the Shelby specs fiasco that we all went through for the '67 428s, or the .529 cam for the FE Fords, or the current D4B Edlebrock manifold for a 273 MoPar, or the F5WE heads for the 428 CJs, or Edelbrock heads/World Products/Batten/Indy/Canfield heads for everything, or the NASCAR hemi cars, or open chamber aluminum heads for all '66-'71 high perf big block Chevrolets, or 780 Holley carbs on 390 Fords, or . . . . .

The '71-'72 Clevelands ALL got the aluminum manifold and 780 Holleys, not just the CJ and Boss. Have you ever seen a conocurs Mustang with a Holley carb and aluminum manifold?? No, because they weren't made. (Not picking on the Fords; just an example)

I have seen the time when I would be right there beside you waving the banner for purity, but I believe that's a waste of time. As a good friend of mine who was the second best tech man I have ever known told me once, "If it passes tech, it's legal. That doesn't mean it is 'stock'. What's legal is what is in the book." That's where we are.

And what about the current offerings from the big three? Paper engines, paper cars, paper power ratings.

Dwight,

There has been some bogus stuff before, but this is by and far as bogus as it gets. I am glad I am knocking things off my bucket list with NHRA as fast as I can, becasue this will be a joke bracket race soon. The 273 still has to use a correct cam and carb. If I had a .477 cam and a 780 holley you would see an OLD 10 second K/S car.

Mike Gray · 09-07-2012, 04:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dwight Southerland

Billy -
Not much different than the Shelby specs fiasco that we all went through for the '67 428s, or the .529 cam for the FE Fords,.

I think it's .527 lift, Let's not get carried away!

Dwight Southerland · 09-07-2012, 04:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul Wong

Dwight,

There has been some bogus stuff before, but this is by and far as bogus as it gets. I am glad I am knocking things off my bucket list with NHRA as fast as I can, becasue this will be a joke bracket race soon. The 273 still has to use a correct cam and carb. If I had a .477 cam and a 780 holley you would see an OLD 10 second K/S car.

I thought the .529 cam for the FE fords was bad. Then the 850 carb, flat top pistons and CJ heads for a '67 Shelby was worse. Then the NASCAR hemi (?!) with a drag race body package?? Aluminum open chamber heads on a '65 Impala? It's all bogus, and as bogus as it gets. This round is no different. But, thanks for the AHFS becasue it will save us, right??

Jeff Lee · 09-07-2012, 04:59 PM

I've not been ignoring this. Just working.

As pointed out, there is a book full of allowable items in S/SS that some find objectionable. Some, but not nearly all, of it already pointed out on this thread. When I last raced in D/S, I raced against some pretty good running 390 Mustangs and the Boss 351 of Rob Youngblood. The Boss 351 had a 780 Holley in lieu of the factory 4300D. The 390 Mustang had a 735 Holley instead of the 600 Holley on top of a Police Interceptor aluminum hi-rise instead of the flat cast iron unit. And it got a 8 qt oil pan. But who cares, it's in the books and the books allow everybody access so you can build any car you want with parts that suit your needs.

No need to go look at the '60's Shelby offerings that have popped up lately, it's been discussed to death here. Same with 383 two four barrels, hi-compression Pontiac's, 327 intakes on 283's, Oldsmobile cams, you name it, it's out there.

And Billy, I don't know if you race IHRA but I do think it's in your area of the country so I'm assuming you do. But had you been looking, you might have found IHRA accepted the Holley for Stock on AMC about 9 years ago.

NHRA just now put it in the books. And AMC themselves submitted the larger cam to NHRA DECADES ago. I brought it up and they found it in their archives.

And Blue Oval, you're right. It was in the AMA specifications. A bunch of you critics are probably to young to know what that's all about. The OEM submitted specifications to the AMA about everything (wheel cylinder volume, spring weight for ignition points, trunk volume, etc., etc., etc.).NHRA used AMA specifications as a source guide.

I have been dealing with NHRA on this for 12 years. I've been told everything I submitted was what they wanted to see and then told "no" for no explainable reason. I've been told to get this or that and "were good to go" then told no. I never threatened to use an attorney and wouldn't know any of the NHRA tech officials if they showed up at my door this afternoon. I just never gave up because I had the documentation and I knew it was right.

And for "Super Trick", I raced D/S last about 7 years ago. My ET's were 10.55-10.65 here in Arizona; never made it to a sea level track. And that was with a .457" cam, cast iron intake and 4300 Autolite. I'd suggest if you have a comparable D/S or D/SA car, you should be able to do better with 7 years in advancements. But I doubt it.

For the record, I've posted on this site more than once LT-1 '70 Nova's should be allowed in S/SS. I've also stated I would love to see factory approved parts allowed by all makes. I'd personally love to see (maybe a separate class called "Trans Am Stock") with Cross-Ram '69 Z-28's vs. Cross-Boss Boss 302 Mustangs and Cross-Ram Javelins along with whatever "off road" cam that was available at the time. Stage II Buick's? Heck yea.

Anybody else...build an AMC. I'd love to have some competition. And in the end, I'm sure I'll be quite familiar with the AHFS.

09-07-2012, 02:59 PM	#11
super trick Junior Member Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 7 Likes: 0 Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: The damage recently done What something Mr.lee doesn't want to talk about? The 4x keyboard racer champ didnt want the cat let out of the bag. Why? Because he wanted to get on this forum ( and 5 others ) and tell everybody how great and smart he and the other AMC racers are. Well just one thing make sure you give a link to NHRA Blueprint specification page for AMC. Just for a reminder of why the AMC Class cars seem to run so well !!!

09-07-2012, 03:48 PM	#13
JRyan Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Aberdeen SD Posts: 645 Likes: 30 Liked 112 Times in 31 Posts	Re: The damage recently done Ralph is correct. The Boss came with an autolite carb that is really expensive and somewhat hard too find. We need one to restore our boss. No holley on the 71-72 351 cars. However, we do get to use one in stock.

09-07-2012, 04:00 PM	#14
Duane Eiskant II Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Alexandria, Va Posts: 501 Likes: 261 Liked 57 Times in 33 Posts	Re: The damage recently done How many of the 4300D's do you need? I think i have about 4 or 5 still. Can supply them to you anyway you want. Email me Dee9275@yahoo.com __________________ Duane Eiskant 1354 Stock/Super Stock

09-07-2012, 04:13 PM	#15
Dwight Southerland VIP Member Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Arkansas - In the middle of everything. Posts: 2,001 Likes: 64 Liked 779 Times in 193 Posts	Re: The damage recently done Billy - Not much different than the Shelby specs fiasco that we all went through for the '67 428s, or the .529 cam for the FE Fords, or the current D4B Edlebrock manifold for a 273 MoPar, or the F5WE heads for the 428 CJs, or Edelbrock heads/World Products/Batten/Indy/Canfield heads for everything, or the NASCAR hemi cars, or open chamber aluminum heads for all '66-'71 high perf big block Chevrolets, or 780 Holley carbs on 390 Fords, or . . . . . The '71-'72 Clevelands ALL got the aluminum manifold and 780 Holleys, not just the CJ and Boss. Have you ever seen a conocurs Mustang with a Holley carb and aluminum manifold?? No, because they weren't made. (Not picking on the Fords; just an example) I have seen the time when I would be right there beside you waving the banner for purity, but I believe that's a waste of time. As a good friend of mine who was the second best tech man I have ever known told me once, "If it passes tech, it's legal. That doesn't mean it is 'stock'. What's legal is what is in the book." That's where we are. And what about the current offerings from the big three? Paper engines, paper cars, paper power ratings.

09-07-2012, 04:59 PM	#20
Jeff Lee VIP Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Anthem, Arizona Posts: 2,766 Likes: 0 Liked 3 Times in 3 Posts	Re: The damage recently done I've not been ignoring this. Just working. As pointed out, there is a book full of allowable items in S/SS that some find objectionable. Some, but not nearly all, of it already pointed out on this thread. When I last raced in D/S, I raced against some pretty good running 390 Mustangs and the Boss 351 of Rob Youngblood. The Boss 351 had a 780 Holley in lieu of the factory 4300D. The 390 Mustang had a 735 Holley instead of the 600 Holley on top of a Police Interceptor aluminum hi-rise instead of the flat cast iron unit. And it got a 8 qt oil pan. But who cares, it's in the books and the books allow everybody access so you can build any car you want with parts that suit your needs. No need to go look at the '60's Shelby offerings that have popped up lately, it's been discussed to death here. Same with 383 two four barrels, hi-compression Pontiac's, 327 intakes on 283's, Oldsmobile cams, you name it, it's out there. And Billy, I don't know if you race IHRA but I do think it's in your area of the country so I'm assuming you do. But had you been looking, you might have found IHRA accepted the Holley for Stock on AMC about 9 years ago. NHRA just now put it in the books. And AMC themselves submitted the larger cam to NHRA DECADES ago. I brought it up and they found it in their archives. And Blue Oval, you're right. It was in the AMA specifications. A bunch of you critics are probably to young to know what that's all about. The OEM submitted specifications to the AMA about everything (wheel cylinder volume, spring weight for ignition points, trunk volume, etc., etc., etc.).NHRA used AMA specifications as a source guide. I have been dealing with NHRA on this for 12 years. I've been told everything I submitted was what they wanted to see and then told "no" for no explainable reason. I've been told to get this or that and "were good to go" then told no. I never threatened to use an attorney and wouldn't know any of the NHRA tech officials if they showed up at my door this afternoon. I just never gave up because I had the documentation and I knew it was right. And for "Super Trick", I raced D/S last about 7 years ago. My ET's were 10.55-10.65 here in Arizona; never made it to a sea level track. And that was with a .457" cam, cast iron intake and 4300 Autolite. I'd suggest if you have a comparable D/S or D/SA car, you should be able to do better with 7 years in advancements. But I doubt it. For the record, I've posted on this site more than once LT-1 '70 Nova's should be allowed in S/SS. I've also stated I would love to see factory approved parts allowed by all makes. I'd personally love to see (maybe a separate class called "Trans Am Stock") with Cross-Ram '69 Z-28's vs. Cross-Boss Boss 302 Mustangs and Cross-Ram Javelins along with whatever "off road" cam that was available at the time. Stage II Buick's? Heck yea. Anybody else...build an AMC. I'd love to have some competition. And in the end, I'm sure I'll be quite familiar with the AHFS. __________________ Jeff Lee 7494 D/S '70 AMX