GM Releases 2013 bogus HP ratings at PRI show

[Alan Roehrich]

It's amusing. The guys with new cars, who make up around 5-10% of the class, want to force the guys with older cars, who make up most of the rest of the class, to buy a bunch of new high dollar parts, and spend a bunch more money to take weight out, which would require even more new rules.

Why is it that the vast majority, say 90% of the class, should have to make massive and expensive adjustments in order to accommodate the other 10% or less?

The solution is to put the new under factored factory race cars where they always went for the previous 40 years or so. In their own classes, or in Super Stock.

In order to make a 69 Chevrolet 427/425 L-72 even remotely competitive with a new 2012 LSx 427/425, you'd need a new set of heads, a new 1050 cfm carburetor, a new single plane intake to match the heads, and a new roller cam, lifters, and springs. Then you'd need a new set of headers, a new converter, and maybe a new rear gear. So, the guys with old cars should have to buy $15K worth of new parts, and effectively move to what amounts to a Super Stock engine program, in order to again be competitive, because NHRA has allowed the factory race cars in the class knowing full well what would happen?

Jeff, you want to give us 5%? Seriously? That makes my L-72 427/425 rated at 404HP. So in A/SA, I take off 168 pounds, or less than 2 tenths. And that is supposed to make us even remotely competitive with a combination rated exactly the same that has at least 150HP more than we can ever hope to make? That's a complete joke, and you know it. We'd still be 3-5 tenths behind, at best.

By the way, Jeff, I never said that the guys running the Mopar and Ford programs, Dale Aldo and Jesse Kershaw, ever publicly gloated over Chevrolet not having a competitive car for 4 years (2008-2012). What I said was, and you know it to be true, that this board was filled completely with people who were all too happy to sing the praises of NHRA for allowing this absurd situation to come about, specifically because Chevrolet did not have a factory car at the time. They were elated that the bogus factory race cars, that did not belong in Stock, were able to dominate the traditional legitimate Chevrolet combinations.

[Jeff Lee]

I remember when NHRA published a new rule that superseded the old "factory produced in numbers greater than 500" (or something like that) with; "Factory cars of 50 or less subject to NHRA approval" (again, words to that affect).
I remember wondering "why would they do that?" I'm guessing it was around 1992 (anybody know?) because the answer seemed to be that Pontiac wanted LT-1 Firehawks in the game.

[Bruce Noland]

1993 nhra rule book. "All cars in stock classes must be factory-production assembled, showroom available and in the hands of the general public."

1994 nhra rulebook. "All cars in stock classes must be factgory-production assembled, showroom available and in the hands of the general public. A minimum 500 units of a particular body style must be produced."

In 1997 or earlier the nhra rule book added the following paragraph and remained the same through 2007. "O.E.M. may apply for inclusion of any special production runs into the official nhra stock car classification guide. Special run must include a minimum of 50 units of an already accepted body style, need not be showroom available. Applications evaluated on an individual basis. Acceptance will not imply precedent."

[NBD MGT]

It's pretty safe to say all Stocker combinations make a LOT more HP than they are rated at and its my understanding that NHRA adds HP if a combination runs too far under the index.

So, is it a bogus HP rating issue or is the irritation because CJ/DP/COPO can be bought over the counter & doesn't require a racer to tear down a donor car & build it up from scratch?

In either case the cars will probably have a ton of modifications and/or trick parts & money spent on them so I'm not entirely sure how it's different from one vs. the other once they're ready to race.

How many of the newer cars hold class records compared to older cars? I think this mostly pertains to A/Stock and lower since AAA, AA, BB, and CC seem to be made for the newer cars with higher HP but maybe I'm mistaken.

I guess I'm just not sure what the actual problem is since most of the new cars run in AAA to CC and the remaining classes seem to be filled with cars from the muscle car era that hold records in almost all of those classes.

In the past, were there certain combinations that dominated classes & left other racers to feel like everything was good until that combination came along & ruined it for everyone?

[Ed Wright]

Do you actually race with us? I doubt it. If so, you have not been paying attention. There are DPs that started out in H/SA. In Super Stock we have them down as far as SS /JA. Probably lower that I have not seen. It is an easy way for checkbook racers with no experience to get fast quick and easy.

Besides, the HP rating in Stock is not what they are supposed to be making on the track with blueprinting and the camshafts and valve springs now allowed, but what they are supposed to put out from the factory. You don't appear to have a very good understanding of what we are doing.

[Jim Wahl]

Originally Posted by Ed Wright

Do you actually race with us? I doubt it. If so, you have not been paying attention. There are DPs that started out in H/SA. In Super Stock we have them down as far as SS /JA. Probably lower that I have not seen. It is an easy way for checkbook racers with no experience to get fast quick and easy.

Besides, the HP rating in Stock is not what they are supposed to be making on the track with blueprinting and the camshafts and valve springs now allowed, but what they are supposed to put out from the factory. You don't appear to have a very good understanding of what we are doing.

Actually one of the CJ combos started off in J/S Ed. Jim

.

[Ed Wright]

Originally Posted by Jim Wahl

Actually one of the CJ combos started off in J/S Ed. Jim

.

Wow!

[Rat Raceway]

For a new guy that is getting ready to start racing Stock in 2013. Why are the "new cars" unfair?

Do they not get grouped in with the others that are of the same power?

I just saw that the 4.0 blower 327 COPO's has had the HP rating changed due to faster times. Is the adjustment nowhere close to where it needs to be? (I'm guessing not after reading the other posts here?)

Is there a place that has Class racing info for the Newbie? The info I have found is awful.

[NBD MGT]

Originally Posted by Ed Wright

It is an easy way for checkbook racers with no experience to get fast quick and easy.

It seems like this is what's really got everyone pissed off.

Since everyone seems to agree that all stockers make more HP than they are rated at, there is no basis to complain about bogus numbers right?

I keep hearing complaints of new car dominance but if that's the case why do older cars hold almost all of the national records?

Out of all the NHRA events this past summer, what is the breakdown of wins by new cars vs. older cars? What's the breakdown of top-10 qualifiers, old vs. new?

Also wondering whether anyone actually knows how many people raced in Stock in 2008 (when all the supposed troubles began) and how many do now?

Just trying to get this because I am newly interested in NHRA racing so I'm "walking in the door today", so to speak, and If I started to race it'd be with a car that was produced during my lifetime.

[Ed Wright]

You are simply too clueless to converse with.

Why don't you man up and use your real name.