Suspension Notice for S/SS by NHRA

[Lou]

Originally Posted by nina

There is no reason to throw a fit, it will not get us anywhere. I guess IF it applies for ALL cars we will be spending more money to make our cars unsafe to meet the rules????

now that this is out there, I wonder if some people don't see this thread & show up with those parts in your car will they bounce you for a year?

[69Cobra]

Originally Posted by nina

There is no reason to throw a fit, it will not get us anywhere. I guess IF it applies for ALL cars we will be spending more money to make our cars unsafe to meet the rules????

LOL Not throwing a fit. I'm just trying to follow my elders lead. Mr. Teuton said that if you agree with what they are doing sit quietly in your seat. I'm not sitting quietly in my seat.

[69Cobra]

Ok well I've been persuaded to repost my earlier message that I deleted with out adding my adjectives. So here is my email that I sent and the reply that I got back that details out the fixes for the issues at hand which are wheelie bars and big front tires.

Hello Gentlemen,
My name is Kris Rachford stock 3032 and I would like to let you know my views on the front brake strut rod bushing issues. I'm currently deployed in Afghanistan but I'm also currently rebuilding my Dad's old Stocker to be able to complete with when I come home. I basically want to make you aware of what happens when the front brake strut rod rubber bushings are used in a race application. I will attach pictures to this email that shows how much movement the stock type rubber bushings allow the front tire to move which in turn lets the tire contact the rear part of the inner fender wheel housing. Until recently I didn't know that I had an alternative option to the factory rubber bushings which would correct this issue of the tire contacting the inner fender area. I believe this happens when the car comes down off a wheel stand and basically lets the body of the car land on the front tires which could very easily cause a tire failure on the race track. The other thing that happens when rubber bushings let things move around is the toe or alinement of the front tires doesn't stay running straight and parallel to each other. Under braking my car was always a hand full and I didn't realize until a Super Stock racer explained it to me that with the rubber bushings under braking the car wants to "hunt" due to the fact that your alinement is now out of adjustment causing the car not to track straight. So there are two basic issues that the rubber bushing cause in a race applications which they were never designed for originally. One being they allow the tire to contact the inner fender wheel housing under hard braking conditions or coming down off a wheel stand which the attached pictures show and they do not keep the front end alinement tracking straight and true. I hope you can make sense out of what I'm saying and understand that both of these issues are safety issues and could very easily cause an on track incident to happen. But there is a fix for this which you know. I've purchased a set of the front spherical bearings from Calvert Racing which corrects these issues. Unfortunately it seems that the NHRA is not going to allow me to use the spherical bearings to correct these safety issues which I disagree with. My hope for this email is that NHRA sees that this is a safety issue and tables this rule for the 2013 racing season to do more research on this issue. Thank you for your time.

Respectfully,

Kris Rachford
Stock 3032

Kris,

If your concern is from a wheel stand, I suggest you put wheelie bars on the car which are legal; and will correct that issue. As for your other issue; any car will wander/hunt during hard braking with a narrow front tire. Our decision is to not allow the use of spherical bearings and/or rod ends on strut rods in Stock.


Pat Cvengros

Pacific Division Technical Director

(626) 250-2295

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[Mark Madison]

Originally Posted by 69Cobra

Did they actually give you a reason?

No, just that they are not allowing spherical bearings/ heim joints in stock.

[Jason]

There you go...not ALL stockers are affected. Only ones with front suspension that use strut rods.

BTW, did anyone bother to ask the tech dept in the first place if stockers could use a heim end/spherical bearings on strut rods or did someone simply modify their front suspension thinking tech would let it slide through without noticing?

[69Cobra]

Originally Posted by Jason

There you go...not ALL stockers are affected. Only ones with front suspension that use strut rods.

On the surface that's what one would think. Until the rubber bushings fail and takes out the strut car in the other lane. Hummm now it kind of effects everybody now doesn't it.

And Super Stock doesn't get out of it clean either with the Stock/Super Stock combo races. Just think about that guy who is hold 4 numbers with a brake strut rod front end that's going to go down and jump on the brakes.

Think about it guys.

[james schaechter]

It appears that NHRA does not believe this to be a safety issue for stockers. Maybe there have not been any crashes attributed to this issue, therefore why allow thechange from their perspective.
Since they allowed it in Superstock, it would be interesting to hear the logic behind why they allow it in SS now and not in Stock. If they allow it in SS due to the higher speeds that they go, then what was the tipping point on mph?
Could they not also allow certain quasi safety items in higher class cars to protect them the same way? For example, not on a P/SA car, but a D car or higher .
Our 66 Nova has good stuff in the front end from global west, but we do not have the strut rod heim end deal. I would like to have it, but it was shot down a few years back. I can tell you that we have run our car in high wheelstand mode and we have run as fast as 124 mph in it. Now, it is a pretty light car and we don't bury the brakes at the stripe, but there have not been issues for high speed handling. I think if you have a car with this setup and NHRA won't allow us to upgrade, buy new replacement rubber up there. 40 year old stuff may not be good enough.
Now, I am not defending NHRA's position here, because it is clear they were not in agreement internally on this issue with SuperStock at least, but this issue might not be a deal breaker on safety.

There is a problem with some of the folks on the committees that are truly trying to manage the process of what to allow and what not to allow. Some of them have not sat behind the wheel of a racecar for decades! They are making decisions based upon what they hear, see and what they might have experienced 30 years ago.
We clearly have some very fast stockers out there now. Many are as fast or faster than SuperStockers!
I think that there needs to be more input sought by the SRAC members. It appears that the SRAC member input is undervalued.

[Greg Hill]

Jim, I can tell you from experience that the input from the SRAC rep is ignored unless it's what Nhra wants to hear.

[Jason]

Originally Posted by james schaechter

I think if you have a car with this setup and NHRA won't allow us to upgrade, buy new replacement rubber up there. 40 year old stuff may not be good enough.

What a great idea! Buy new replacement rubber instead of trusting old worn parts. Everything else is new on a freshly built racecar, why not new rubber strut rod bushings. They are easy enough to replace.

Or do some just want to use the "Trick of the Week" introduced to Stock class by a few who have a known history of stretching the rules. Sorry a few spent money for the wrong parts. Maybe they should have checked to see if the part was legal for Stock before laying down their hard earned cash.

[69Cobra]

Originally Posted by Jason

What a great idea! Buy new replacement rubber instead of trusting old worn parts. Everything else is new on a freshly built racecar, why not new rubber strut rod bushings. They are easy enough to replace.

Or do some just want to use the "Trick of the Week" introduced to Stock class by a few who have a known history of stretching the rules. Sorry a few spent money for the wrong parts. Maybe they should have checked to see if the part was legal for Stock before laying down their hard earned cash.

Jason,
Do you race or own a stock or super stock car?

I'm thinking you don't. I'm also thinking you don't have a rule book so let me copy and paste the rules for the front suspension for Stock.

SUSPENSION, Front
Must retain complete stock front suspension system as produced by manufacturer for body used, aftermarket tie rods with Heim joints permitted. Lift kits/travel limiters prohibited. Sway bar optional. See General Regulations 3:4.

I read that as system meaning the same as the factory design. In other words if it came factory with double A arms then you can't redesign it and install struts for example; same as if you have a brake strut rod car you can't change it over to run double A arms etc... I think you get my point. The break strut rods that have been changed to where the rod doesn't go through the original mount I can understand their view on but when you just replace a rubber bushing with a bearing on the same factory brake strut rod you still have the factory system as produced. With your theory we shouldn't be allowed to run solid motor mount. Ya get what I'm saying here?