1967 Pontiac Firebird

[Paul Ceasrine]

Kip,

The Turbo Hydra-Matic (3-Speed) was 'only' avaibable with the
Firebird 400.

The Firebird 326 'H.O' could 'only' get the 2-Speed 'Power-Glide'
for an Automatic.

Both the Firebird 326 'H.O' and Firebird 400 had;

* Special Suspension Package
* #345 lbs/inch Load-rate 'Front Springs'
* #135 lbs/inch Load-rate 'Rear Mono-Leaf Springs
* 5/8" Front Sway-bar

* Automatics had a Traction-Bar installed for the right rear.
* 4-Speeds had 'dual' Traction Bars

* 10-Bolt Rear-Ends

* Dual Exhaust

Note; The 400/335 HP 'Ram-Air' engine had '428' exhaust manifolds.

Note; The 400/335 HP 'Ram-Air' engine had a 'special calibrated'
Rochester 750 CFM Carburetor.

Note; 'Ram-Air' option (Cost; $263)

[oldskool]

Probably nobody that cares, but there is some slight misinformation this thread.

First thing I'll say is that I've never heard of anybody running the 326 in a competitive Stocker. The holes are just too small.

But, can anybody here site any competitive 326 powered Stockers ?

The Pontiac 2-speed auto was referred to as a "power-glide". It's my understanding that all the '64-'69 Pontiac A & F-body 2-speed autos were not Chevy Powerglides, but were what some call a "Super Turbine 300". I think these were also used in some Buicks & Olds too. IIRC, they could use a TH350/TH400 type converter.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Super_Turbine_300

BUT, after '69, SOME Pontiacs did come with a PG trans. I think some of 'em came with a dual pattern case & some came with that same case, but only the BOP holes were drilled.

I only bought one of the dual pattern PG's. Actually bought the whole car(what was left of it) from a U-Pull-It yard. I think it was a '71 Bird. May have been a '70. When I unbolted it from the 350 engine, the bell housing part fell into several pieces. Couldn't tell it was cracked, because of all the caked on dirt. I only saw one other, which was in a Lemans. I wanna say that they only came in Pontiacs in '70 & '71, but could be wrong.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/293982744520

[Stan Weiss]

Originally Posted by oldskool

Probably nobody that cares, but there is some slight misinformation this thread.

First thing I'll say is that I've never heard of anybody running the 326 in a competitive Stocker. The holes are just too small.

But, can anybody here site any competitive 326 powered Stockers ?

The Pontiac 2-speed auto was referred to as a "power-glide". It's my understanding that all the '64-'69 Pontiac A & F-body 2-speed autos were not Chevy Powerglides, but were what some call a "Super Turbine 300". I think these were also used in some Buicks & Olds too. IIRC, they could use a TH350/TH400 type converter.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Super_Turbine_300

BUT, after '69, SOME Pontiacs did come with a PG trans. I think some of 'em came with a dual pattern case & some came with that same case, but only the BOP holes were drilled.

I only bought one of the dual pattern PG's. Actually bought the whole car(what was left of it) from a U-Pull-It yard. I think it was a '71 Bird. May have been a '70. When I unbolted it from the 350 engine, the bell housing part fell into several pieces. Couldn't tell it was cracked, because of all the caked on dirt. I only saw one other, which was in a Lemans. I wanna say that they only came in Pontiacs in '70 & '71, but could be wrong.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/293982744520

It has to be more than just the small hole (3.718" bore) that is the problem with the 326 ci Pontiac. People build the 305 ci SBC 3.736" bore and run well.

Stan

[oldskool]

Originally Posted by Stan Weiss

It has to be more than just the small hole (3.718" bore) that is the problem with the 326 ci Pontiac. People build the 305 ci SBC 3.736" bore and run well.

Stan

I'll take a stab at this.

Now this is my opinion of why nobody has/would build a 326 powered Stocker.

(1) The 326HO carb is a an AFB. It seems that most all the popular Pontiac combos are Q-jet equipped. It has been proven that legal 750 Q-jets will feed even low 9 sec SS engines, & 10 sec Stocker engines. Therefore, a Q-jet would not be a choke point for a 326 engine.

(2) The NHRA hp factor of 285 is just too high to make the 326HO competitive. There are later Q-jet equipped 400 cube engines that have a lower hp factor. The '68 Q-jet equipped 350HO has an hp factor of only 305. That would make it much more competitive than a 326 @ 285hp. Don't know how low the 326 engine hp factor would have to be in order for it to be competitive. But obviously, if you get the hp factor low enuff, you can make most any combo competitive. There have several very competitive 4-cyl cars.

http://www.classracerinfo.com/Engine...0&MAKE=Pontiac

(3) There are no legal replacement 326 pistons listed. So, anyone who wanted to build a 326 Stocker would have to get a piston made & NHRA approved. Adam Strang did this for the '68 Pontiac 350.

(4) Not sure, but I assume that the auto trans equipped 326 cars came with the 2-speed. I think you can now run a 3-speed. But, this was probably a major consideration, back when you had to run what it came with. I'm quite sure that's why there were VERY few '64-'66 GTO Stockers which ran an auto trans.

(5) Bottom line is that there are just too many other Pontiac combos that are much better choices, for a variety of reasons. Therefore, I don't expect there will ever be a 326 Stocker built.

"...People build the 305 ci SBC 3.736" bore and run well."

As to that statement: The '80 Bird I bought in recent years had a Q-jet equipped 305 in it. So, just out of curiosity, I just looked up the 305 powered '80 Pontiacs.

For all Pontiac models except the Birds, the hp factor is 235. That's 50 hp LESS than the 326 Pontiac engine, plus it has a Q-jet. Hey, at 235hp, the 326 MIGHT be competitive. Don't know.

http://www.classracerinfo.com/Engine...5&MAKE=Pontiac

[Stan Weiss]

Originally Posted by oldskool

I'll take a stab at this.

Now this is my opinion of why nobody has/would build a 326 powered Stocker.

(1) The 326HO carb is a an AFB. It seems that most all the popular Pontiac combos are Q-jet equipped. It has been proven that legal 750 Q-jets will feed even low 9 sec SS engines, & 10 sec Stocker engines. Therefore, a Q-jet would not be a choke point for a 326 engine.

(2) The NHRA hp factor of 285 is just too high to make the 326HO competitive. There are later Q-jet equipped 400 cube engines that have a lower hp factor. The '68 Q-jet equipped 350HO has an hp factor of only 305. That would make it much more competitive than a 326 @ 285hp. Don't know how low the 326 engine hp factor would have to be in order for it to be competitive. But obviously, if you get the hp factor low enuff, you can make most any combo competitive. There have several very competitive 4-cyl cars.

http://www.classracerinfo.com/Engine...0&MAKE=Pontiac

(3) There are no legal replacement 326 pistons listed. So, anyone who wanted to build a 326 Stocker would have to get a piston made & NHRA approved. Adam Strang did this for the '68 Pontiac 350.

(4) Not sure, but I assume that the auto trans equipped 326 cars came with the 2-speed. I think you can now run a 3-speed. But, this was probably a major consideration, back when you had to run what it came with. I'm quite sure that's why there were VERY few '64-'66 GTO Stockers which ran an auto trans.

(5) Bottom line is that there are just too many other Pontiac combos that are much better choices, for a variety of reasons. Therefore, I don't expect there will ever be a 326 Stocker built.

"...People build the 305 ci SBC 3.736" bore and run well."

As to that statement: The '80 Bird I bought in recent years had a Q-jet equipped 305 in it. So, just out of curiosity, I just looked up the 305 powered '80 Pontiacs.

For all Pontiac models except the Birds, the hp factor is 235. That's 50 hp LESS than the 326 Pontiac engine, plus it has a Q-jet. Hey, at 235hp, the 326 MIGHT be competitive. Don't know.

http://www.classracerinfo.com/Engine...5&MAKE=Pontiac

Interesting. While it may have an AFB carb and not a Q-Jet. The Throttle and Venturi sizes listed on Class Racer Info for the '67 285 HP 326 are the same sizes as was used for the '66 335 HP 389 engine.

Stan

[oldskool]

Originally Posted by Stan Weiss

Interesting. While it may have an AFB carb and not a Q-Jet. The Throttle and Venturi sizes listed on Class Racer Info for the '67 285 HP 326 are the same sizes as was used for the '66 335 HP 389 engine.

Stan

Yeah, I suspect that lots of Pontiacs used that same size AFB.

Same with the Q-jet. Most of the Pontiac engines used the same size Q-jet, during the same model year. There were exceptions, such as the SD455 Q-jets. Also the rare 455HO Q-jets that didn't have the outer booster rings.

Hey, some of the OHC Six engines had a Q-jet.

http://www.classracerinfo.com/Engine...6&MAKE=Pontiac

Some 301's came with an 800cfm Q-jet.

http://www.classracerinfo.com/Engine...9&MAKE=Pontiac

I suppose the main thing is that Q-jet equipped Pontiac Stockers are not power limited by the carb, since the Q-jets can feed low 9-sec SS Pontiacs. I suppose the quickest Pontiac powered SS pass may have been the 8.90, made by the GT/AA 428 powered Cobalt, raced by Robert Cruzen. That Q-jet had to be the 750cfm size. I suppose some refer to that size as the "small" Q-jet. Don't know.

https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r2016#indextop