Stocker pistons...

[Grant Eldridge]

My experience was that switching from TRW pistons on my first stocker engine to CP piston technology made a world of difference! We had flogged the TRW engine extensively to a best of 11.39 on the then 12.00 index in E/SA. Cal Method advised me to ditch the old school TRW's, and get CP pistons with new technology and a stocker ring package, modern skirt design and extremely accurate ring land machining. After the changes, we eventually got to a best of 10.73. Not saying it was all in the pistons/rings, but they improved the ring seal and lowered drag so much that we could then rpm higher, tune differently, gear differently and the engine became tuneable and responsive to other changes. In my opinion, optimal ring seal is crucial. If you are building to go fast, you need the best parts and machine work here to make everything else effective. If you are building this engine wanting to go a long way under the index, start with the good piston/ring combination and optimize the short block. Later you can build on that good foundation, it's only $500. difference! When you consider all the other machine work, parts and labor you will need this is money well spent.
Otherwise, you may be limited in how far you can get and have to either be satisfied with slower times or building another better short block later, as we had to do. Cheaper in the end to do it once using the best parts. Not knocking the JE or other new piston brands, but the CP are definitely an excellent piston, just my two cents....

Grant Eldridge
E/SA 6650
National Record Holder 2006/2011

[brent flynn]

Thanks Grant... i hear what you are sayin... I want to do the best shortblock that i can... i may have to save a couple more bucks and go with CP... I just want to know what most of the guys are running... im definitely leaning toward CP... Hard to believe, that Venolia or JE, wouldnt have it together, like CP... considering how long theyve been in business.

[Alan Roehrich]

JE has it together. Their ring grooves are as good as anyone's. Their skirt design is excellent. And no, they are not making a TRW copy, not even close. They make a state of the art piston. I use both CP and JE, and if JE pistons were not every bit as good as JE, or CP pistons were not every bit as good as JE, I would not use the lesser brand.

Diamond will make a Stock Eliminator piston. They make good pistons. but if they do not have one on the shelf, you will pay for development costs, and you'll wait for them to submit, and NHRA to approve. Wiseco will do the same, but once again, you pay, and you wait.

I have been through the NHRA approval process, personally. Think root canal. With no anesthetic. It took nine months, and NHRA approved one design and set of dimensions, then crawfished/backpedaled, and we started all over.

One other thing. Last year, we ran into a problem with an engine early in the year ( I won't say what happened, just that it wasn't one of my engines) and I needed to build a new engine "from scratch". Rick and JE stepped up, I got a set of new pistons, with the latest and greatest of everything, I got them in two weeks, and I did not have to pay any expedite fees. That engine was on the dyno nearly a month ahead of schedule, made great power, and the ring seal was perfect. There is no question in my mind about the quality or service from JE, nor about the excellence in design.

[Jeff Lee]

To be more clear on my prior post, I was specifically referring to the valve pockets ONLY on the JE pistons. And to be fair to JE, that was years ago (about the time that CP was new to our market) and JE may have fixed the issue. In fact, they may be cutting the ring lands with a laser by now. So ask.

I suppose the question to ask any piston maker is a) what are the control tolerances on the ring lands, and b) what defines the valve notch (or dome or dish as it may be)? There's a lot more to it as well. How is the skirt ground?
And some pistons will be perfectly legal yet yield a higher compression ratio.

Realistically, you should have your machinist order the pistons and ask all the questions. If he's an experienced engine builder and knows how to make power, let him do what he has to do. And you have to take into account bore diameter and ring package availability. I've spent upwards of $1200 on rings because they were a bastard size. Now that NHRA allows a larger bore size than in the past, it's worked out for me as I can now get something closer to the common 4.250". That will save a lot of money!

You gotta take it all in and I'd say the last consideration should be the price!
Ring seal...ring seal...ring seal!

[brent flynn]

Luckily, i have a very experienced machinist, in the Stocker world, doing my engine....Bill Smith, Muncie, Indiana... He has done several Pontiacs, in the past...and they have all set records...so, i think i will be ok... And, yea...i know ring seal is very important. Its amazing how different things are, between a cheap bracket engine, and a Stocker engine. Ive always wanted to do this, and i know its gonna be costly. That being said, i will do the best shortblock , that i can. I will build from it... Im sure i wont hit the #'s that the rest of the E and F cars are hittin, right off the bat, but, if it were easy, everybody could do it, right?
I appreciate all the feedback... Its guys like y'all, that can speed this process up, a ton, and not let guys like me, make too many costly mistakes...

[Dwight Southerland]

You should contact the McKinneys if you are close to Muncie.

[brent flynn]

They are good friends of mine... have known them most of my life... Unfortunately, Roy passed away in 2009... Mike still races(along with his son Marty), they dont run class anymore. But, their E/S bird(Truman's original car) sure ran good... Bill Smith(the guy thats doin mine)done some of their class engines... I grew up watching them run...

[Tom Goldman]

Originally Posted by Jeff Lee

To be more clear on my prior post, I was specifically referring to the valve pockets ONLY on the JE pistons. And to be fair to JE, that was years ago (about the time that CP was new to our market) and JE may have fixed the issue. In fact, they may be cutting the ring lands with a laser by now. So ask.

I suppose the question to ask any piston maker is a) what are the control tolerances on the ring lands, and b) what defines the valve notch (or dome or dish as it may be)? There's a lot more to it as well. How is the skirt ground?
And some pistons will be perfectly legal yet yield a higher compression ratio.

Realistically, you should have your machinist order the pistons and ask all the questions. If he's an experienced engine builder and knows how to make power, let him do what he has to do. And you have to take into account bore diameter and ring package availability. I've spent upwards of $1200 on rings because they were a bastard size. Now that NHRA allows a larger bore size than in the past, it's worked out for me as I can now get something closer to the common 4.250". That will save a lot of money!

You gotta take it all in and I'd say the last consideration should be the price!
Ring seal...ring seal...ring seal!

Ring seal on a 4.25" AMC ! Good Luck !
Better have that block filled solid to the deck.
And yes I speak from experiance.
BTW JE is now owned by Weisco.

[Mike Taylor 3601]

Jeff,
I believe what you are talking about on valve pockets is on TRW pistons most of them the valve pockets are'nt machined they are made when piston is forged,so pockets vary in depth and location.They vary because they are there before rest of piston is machined.
Anyone that has ever flycut a piston w/pockets forged will tell you they are inconsistent for depth and location.
I'm sure JE or any other piston maker would'nt rely on a piston with forged valve pockets to locate there valve pockets,all that info is going to come from there programs that will have valve pocket locations,spacing etc.
Mike Taylor 3601

[DonatoEng]

Jeff, you looking for a 4.25" thick wall AMC block ?
I happen to have one of the original race blocks on the shelf.
John