Starter issues

[NHRA 303]

Since May I have been having a starter problem. When I hit the starter switch. The starter just grinds against the flywheel. This is a small block Chevrolet stick shift stocker. With everything removed. I can physically watch the starter gear grind against the flywheel face. Not the outer diameter of the ring gear.
My initial set up was a 142 tooth flywheel. With a 14 tooth GPE starter. It had plenty of clearance in the tip to root of the gear. GPE calls for .030. I have about .040. With the pinion when pulled into the flywheel gear it is engaged 50% of the ring thickness. (Optimal per instructions) With this set up it was grinding about 50% of the time. No matter how much I shimmed the starter down. Or spacered the motor away from the flywheel. GPE suggested trying a 9 tooth pinion. That was much better. With only occasional grinding. But then it progressively got worse.
So a good friend of mine let me borrow his 153 tooth flywheel clutch set up.(thinking that the 142 flywheel in the problem) With his starter. No grinding.
So I ordered the correct mounting plate for my GPE. Installed it. No problem. No grinding for roughly 40 starts. Then yesterday im loading my car into the trailer. And once again the grinding returns???? Worked fine all day. Then when the third round call came. It just kept grinding. I had to crank it about 20 degrees to a better spot. I was able to go one more round by popping the clutch while stopping.
So I know that its not the flywheel. And not the starter. Ive already had GPE go through it. Is it my engine block? If it is. Why hasn't it ground up till now. The bolts are tight when I remove it.
Any help here will be GREATLY appreciated guys. I have spoken with the clutch, and starter builders. And nobody can figure this out.



Thank you in advance. And sorry its so lengthy. Its been a long three months...

Steve Tucholsky
Cleveland,Ohio

D/S 1966 chevy 2

[richie 2]

I hate starter problems...

[Mike Taylor 3601]

I would say it would just about have to be something with soleniod,maybe it's not strong enough or have bad connection at times,
Could be in solenoid where contact is,where main battery cable goes on soleniod back nut off slightly so you can wiggle the post in solenoid where main battery wire goes,then put battery cable back on and tighten,cable will be tight on hot post,between the 2 nuts,but you will be able to wiggle post on soleniod,what this does is let contact move around in solenoid so they make better connection.
Mike Taylor 3601

[buzzinhalfdozen]

Friend of mine with a BBF in a S/Comp dragster went through this same thing last winter. He sent his starter back for a routine freshen up (tilton super starter) installed new flexplate and spent about a month or so grinding up flexplates and pulling his hair out. He stopped one day and asked if I'd take a look at it, well the drive would come out some times hit the flexpate then go back, sometimes would engage for a bit and pulse in and out. I went and got my 25 year old tilton manual starter put his auto head on it and it worked perfectly.After many trips back and many phone calls tilton finally made him aware that the factory that had made the solenoids had been damaged in the Japanese tidal wave a couple years ago and they had to source the solenoids elsewhere. Bottom line they finally supplied him with a functional solenoid and has been working fine ever since, only cost him 2 flexplates and a lot of headaches.

[Tom Goldman]

A greatly overlooked area on starters is poor grounding thru the mounts or motor plates and voltage drop on the starter solenoid circuit.
Both problems usually get worse as the engine and car heat up, and show up when you start going rounds.
If you dont have the original ground bond wire at the motormount ,I would definatly put on at least a 4 ga. braided cable between the engine and chassis.
Since its a Stocker ,if you are still using the oem ignition switch ,as many I've seen still do , Eliminate it and since it's a stick use either a high current starter switch with at least 12 ga wire between the solenoid and battery source ,or a low current button with a relay.
I recently saw a Comp dragster with starting issues like yours, the battery term at the starter saw 16 volts ,but the solenoid circuit had such high resistance ,it was only seeing 9 -10 volts at the solenoid , causing it to bounce in and out ,damaging the flywheel.

[Jim Hawkins]

I had this same problem with my sbc SS/I car. Same 142 tooth flywheel and 14 tooth GPE starter. I tried everything to make that thing work but would grind against the flywheel gear about 25% of the time. Problem would get worse if the batteries were down at all. I found the quality of the GPE starter to be very poor. The starter mounting holes were too large and not even spaced straight or correct distance apart. They dissagreed with me but the starter bolts need to register snug in the starter. Thats why oem bolts are knurled. My machinist located, drilled and bushed the holes properly and then the starter worked better but still sometimes would not engage.
Finally I bought a CSR starter with a 12 tooth gear. No comparison on the quality of these 2 starters. The CSR starter bolts fit good and were located dead on. Also came with better hardware than the cheap junk that came with the GPE unit. After installing the CSR unit I have not had it grind once. I installed 1 shim under it to get some more gear clearance and have not had any issues since.
Hope this helps,
Jim

[NHRA 303]

Hello everyone. And thank you for all the post's. I was very diligent when I ran all the wiring. I did not want to be chasing down electrical issues at a later time. I made sure the block was down to shiny metal. The starter wires are 2ga. welding cables crimped, soldered, and shrink wrapped. I haven't checked for voltage drop. I just seemed to be an mechanical issue. But I have had my suspicions about the solenoid . And NOW after reading "Jims" latest post. I think we've hit it on the head. My clutch guy recommended that I use a GPE starter. Now im beginning to think that that is the source of the starter problems.
SO on the recommendation of GPE. I installed 3 .050 shims. For a total of .0150. Installed it. Groundthe first time I hit it. "Getting really pissed now" So then for S*** and giggles. I threw in an 8 year old Jegs starter. And low and behold. It works flawlessly. Im wondering if its the solenoid. And it cost $100 more than CSR.


Steve

And now that I think of it. When I was mocking up the starter on the engine over the winter. I had to remove the mounting plate to shim the starter motor back. One of the 3 mounting bolts was suppose to be a button head bolt. GPE must have ran out of them. So he took a cap bolt. And ground it down on a pedestal grinder to make it low profile. To say the least. When I went to remove it. The hex socket just broke off. Had extract it the old fashion way. YEAH. Definitely worth $100 more!