Are COPO's, CJ's and Drag Packs good for our sport?

[GUMP]

Jeff,

That was very well put.

I like what you are doing. Hopefully this will open the door to a lot of less expensive combinations. Let's hope that GM and Ford will take note. Of course, I also have an almost finished 2010 Camaro, which makes me a little biased on this subject!

Take Care,

Daren

[Andys dad]

Originally Posted by Jeff Teuton

Jay, I know most people think it is NHRA. In almost all cases the manufacturers won't send in the TI sheet on a model. The TI is the detailed spec sheet for whatever car is in question and it has all details on the car; wb, track, seating, etc, and more details on the motor. Also in many cases NHRA requests parts, usually heads, for their inventory. As far as Mopar, Jack McCormack when he was associated with Mopar always supplied these sheets. I can't speak for Chevy and Ford. I know in the distant past NHRA had to find out for themselves because the demand to race the cars (such as the 69 Camaro) forced them to derive these specs. Lately with the factories in the shape they were in the only models are the new speciality cars which obviously the factories have to supply the info as it is a built for the purpose car. As far as the new cars I took the TI sheet from the Drag Pak and basically just changed the motor specs because the standard brakes, independent rear suspension, and many mundane items are from street cars. In Stock the rear seat is removable, a cage is permitted, a rear straight axle is permitted (and the specs for the DP is what is acceptable), lightweight brakes are acceptable. I used dead stock Hemi motors. The old transmissions are acceptable, and on these cars the 8 3/4 or Dana is the rear unless someone wants to try the IRS. Also do away with the carbon fiber hood. So that is the short version of the Challengers off the showroom with VIN, Title (or maybe a reconstructed car). I don't know if Jessee Kershaw is doing the same for Ford, and I don't even know the Chevy people, but then again they probably don't like me anyway. Even the guys with the old cars who complain the most have cages, light brakes, no rear seat, maybe a different corporate rear end, and all the little trinkets we now have. At least that is my opinion. 2 cents and a cup of coffee will get you what I really think, and a beer will get it all.

I am very impressed with your recent lengthy posts and what you are trying to do ..

I just want a blower Barracuda ..

Perhaps there would be a trade in our future ..

Ron

[rognelson777]

1st, the factories are selling these cars to racers and making money on them. Think about it! That is good for the factories. Was to PRI a couple of years ago and all the factories are selling race parts, even complete engines, why let the small business man make all the money, the factories might as well make the money.

I think the best idea would be to make one class a specific combination, say supercharged, 400 cubic inches, same weight and factory body and chassis ( I do not care about the combo, just make everyone be the same) Do not change the horsepower on the cars, just adjust the weight if one combo becomes dominant. ( I believe part of what killed prostock truck was dodges mini pickup had too much frontal area so could not compete) If you keep same engine and body package the same, nothing is outdated.

This would then be like the Hemi challenge, who does not like the Hemi Challenge. Great old fashioned heads up racing. you could also keep the other classes and factor them correctly. (and you know what those guys are spending on the hemi challenge cars).

PS it looks like brand loyalty is out the window if Barton is looking to change. Oh yeah, did I see Reher Morrison on a Mopar superstocker.

[Jeff Teuton]

Barton needs to change. He needs new combos to ruin. Look at the mess in SS/AH. Kinda reminds me of the mess in Syria. Nobody knows what to do. I like the sorta heads up porposal of weight/CI etc.

[ALMACK]

Originally Posted by Jeff Teuton

Jay, I know most people think it is NHRA. In almost all cases the manufacturers won't send in the TI sheet on a model. The TI is the detailed spec sheet for whatever car is in question and it has all details on the car; wb, track, seating, etc, and more details on the motor. Also in many cases NHRA requests parts, usually heads, for their inventory. As far as Mopar, Jack McCormack when he was associated with Mopar always supplied these sheets. I can't speak for Chevy and Ford. I know in the distant past NHRA had to find out for themselves because the demand to race the cars (such as the 69 Camaro) forced them to derive these specs. Lately with the factories in the shape they were in the only models are the new speciality cars which obviously the factories have to supply the info as it is a built for the purpose car. As far as the new cars I took the TI sheet from the Drag Pak and basically just changed the motor specs because the standard brakes, independent rear suspension, and many mundane items are from street cars. In Stock the rear seat is removable, a cage is permitted, a rear straight axle is permitted (and the specs for the DP is what is acceptable), lightweight brakes are acceptable. I used dead stock Hemi motors. The old transmissions are acceptable, and on these cars the 8 3/4 or Dana is the rear unless someone wants to try the IRS. Also do away with the carbon fiber hood. So that is the short version of the Challengers off the showroom with VIN, Title (or maybe a reconstructed car). I don't know if Jessee Kershaw is doing the same for Ford, and I don't even know the Chevy people, but then again they probably don't like me anyway. Even the guys with the old cars who complain the most have cages, light brakes, no rear seat, maybe a different corporate rear end, and all the little trinkets we now have. At least that is my opinion. 2 cents and a cup of coffee will get you what I really think, and a beer will get it all.

How much will a keg get ? LOL




Seriously, I like what you are doing Jeff to get those VIN Challengers in the classification guide...and this is from a Ford fan.

I wish I had the pull to get some late model VIN Fords approved.

[Steve Stickel]

2012 Pony Car Sales and Rankings
1. Chevrolet Camaro: 84,391
2. Ford Mustang: 82,995
3. Dodge Challenger: 43,119
Sources: Ford Motor Company, General Motors, Chrysler Group LLC


Total 210,505 . vs maybe 300 total DP, COPO, or CJ's ?


And thats only for year 2012, 210,505 units that as of today 09/12/2013, will NEVER be eligible for Stk/SS/PureStock as produced..think about it, what a shame.

[jaythorne]

i dont really have a dog in the fight ,but nhra should get those specs, they shouldnt allow one without the other....or should aquire those specs themselves...what are they paid for anyway???..wasnt stock supposed to be so that a guy could show up with the car he owns and have a place for it to race....somewhere along the line i think the original objective got lost...ever heard of the tail waggin the dog?

[ALMACK]

Originally Posted by Steve Stickel

2012 Pony Car Sales and Rankings
1. Chevrolet Camaro: 84,391
2. Ford Mustang: 82,995
3. Dodge Challenger: 43,119
Sources: Ford Motor Company, General Motors, Chrysler Group LLC


Total 210,505 . vs maybe 300 total DP, COPO, or CJ's ?


And thats only for year 2012, 210,505 units that as of today 09/12/2013, will NEVER be eligible for Stk/SS/PureStock as produced..think about it, what a shame.

Thanks for posting that.

Now that the prices of used 2011 Mustangs with the 3.7 V-6 are coming down, I would love to get one and mod it to fit Pure Stock ( or Stocker ) rules to see what it is capable of.
However, even if NHRA allowed it in their classification guide, it would probably be rated at 304 h.p. like what was in the Ford sales brochures.

[Steve Stickel]

Alan,
Here you go ... the Ford specs are available, just have to snoop around.. Ford has deleted this link, but I have the downloaded pages in pdf form , seems cant upload a pdf file here on this site..
https://media.ford.com/images/10031/...g_GT_Specs.pdf PM me if you want a copy
Also, find a friendly Ford tech to "acquire" one of these DVD's, just remember to set your computer yr/mo date to the DVD yr/mo date.
All the info you need for stock... for pure stock you have to go to an outside source for the cam overlap/duration specs.
Hope this helps...

[ALMACK]

Originally Posted by Steve Stickel

Alan,
Here you go ... the Ford specs are available, just have to snoop around.. Ford has deleted this link, but I have the downloaded pages in pdf form , seems cant upload a pdf file here on this site..
https://media.ford.com/images/10031/...g_GT_Specs.pdf PM me if you want a copy
Also, find a friendly Ford tech to "acquire" one of these DVD's, just remember to set your computer yr/mo date to the DVD yr/mo date.
All the info you need for stock... for pure stock you have to go to an outside source for the cam overlap/duration specs.
Hope this helps...

Thanks Steve !
I'll have to go see my friend at the Ford dealership.