Richardson Barone, winner of the U.S. Nationals ? (Redirected. May affect everyone)

Frank Straton · 09-10-2007, 11:27 AM

Here is a picture I received, is Scotty Richardson the real winner of the U.S. Nationals?

Michael Beard · 09-10-2007, 01:16 PM

>> E6 0.026 7.932 162.59 ****WINNER**** 0.047 8.357 153.47

>> Jason Coan's MOV: 0.0047 seconds (approximately 13 inches).

Scotty appears to be ahead (comparing not only wheels but also front ends) already, and with Scotty carrying over 10 mph on him, you'd think it'd be impossible for Coan to get there, let alone by a wheel.

Either that or Indy's finish line is seriously crooked!

Dave Goob Cook · 09-10-2007, 03:12 PM

Tough to tell from a picture taken of a TeeVee screen, but it does look wrong.......

You don't suppose he dumped him having a moment do ya?
Maybe the Richardsons have a new trans supplier for '08?

Finish line at Indy screwy?? Say it ain't so!!!!!

Ask anyone who gets screwed there at the weekly bracket events.

It does look like the Barone car nose is lower at the beam height than the Coan ride......

Inquiring Mind · 09-10-2007, 03:18 PM

Beard, the finish line isn't crooked or anything like that. I've seen this happen over and over in super stock and people get screwed.... that is; the wheel of one car (Richardson/ Barone) trips the finish line beam and the nose or the "fin" (in this case) of the other car (Coans) does trip the finish line beam. Is Richardson's wheel in front of Coan's wheel?- Definitely! Is Richardsons "fin" in front of Coans "fin"? Yes! But Richardsons fin didn't trip the beam and Coans did. Could be the angle of the fin, his track placement etc etc. End of Story. It Happens all the time in Super Stock with the noses of the late model cars but now that it happened on the big stage in comp, it's coming to a forefront. Have you ever seen a guy in class run a crazy high mph and wins by a few thousandths? Same concept. It should have been done long ago.

NHRA/ Imbrogno/ Foster or whomever needs to lower the finish line beams to 1 to 2 inches (In the sportsman categories) so that the front wheels of everyones car trips the beams and this will fix the problem of a late model car tripping the beams with his nose and the other older car tripping the wheel with the wheels. Or in this case a fin of one car tripping the beam and the other cars fin not tripping the beam. In the PRO categories they can leave the beams the way they are so that the cars don't jump over the low "sportsman" beam. They could have this programmed in the computer.

Michael Beard · 09-10-2007, 06:27 PM

Here's a shot somebody posted on DRR...

Not even looking at Scotty's 'fin', the sloped nose of the car has to trip the beam. Above and beyond that, even Coan's nose isn't 13" in front of Scotty's front tire, even if there wasn't body work in front of it!

Keith Mayers · 09-10-2007, 06:49 PM

this opens a can of worms. steve johnson all over again? what will be the answer, mike, you sure look right to me.

Inquiring Mind · 09-10-2007, 07:54 PM

I know what you are saying Beard. Scotty's nose/ front end should have tripped the beam but that's my point. It doesn't always work that way, that's why you see mph fluctuation sometimes of 3 to 5mph (sometimes the front ends take it and sometimes they do not). It happens all the time, thats why they need to lower the beams. It would make it a tire to tire race and take all the guesswork out. No more wondering.

Bottom line, Scotty and Barone got screwed (but so have alot of other people in the same situation) This is a totally different deal than the Pro Stock Bike.

Rich Biebel · 09-10-2007, 10:24 PM

I lost a race this past weekend where I was on the brakes and ran over 1.5 mph faster than my best run over 3 days. No doubt in my mind the lights were tripped by my nose on that run and it looks clear that Scotty should have "dumped" to get the win at Indy. I had not seen those pictures before.......Racers obvioulsy have to know their own cars and what and where they trip the lights with.......I thought about it on my car but never addressed the problem and now it bit me..........

Larry Sullivan · 09-11-2007, 05:36 PM

Video frames are misleading - the top of the frame was scanned 1/60th of a second before the bottom of the screen frame (30 frames per second, two interlaced scans per frame), so the car in the nearer lane always appears to be ahead of its actual position because it was scanned later. In other words, you need a snapshot, not a vertically scanned video image, in order to get a true picture, or you need a video system that scans a lot quicker than 30 frames per second. The MOV in this example (.0047) is much smaller than the video frame uncertainty (.0167). And, given the angle of the finish stripe in the frame, the camera was not perpendicular to the track, further distorting the image.

mannymen · 09-11-2007, 08:45 PM

Did anyone out there Tivo the finals?

09-10-2007, 11:27 AM	#1
Frank Straton Junior Member Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 16 Likes: 0 Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Richardson Barone, winner of the U.S. Nationals ? (Redirected. May affect everyone) Here is a picture I received, is Scotty Richardson the real winner of the U.S. Nationals?

09-10-2007, 01:16 PM	#2
Michael Beard VIP Member Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Columbus, OH Posts: 4,060 Likes: 0 Liked 13 Times in 9 Posts	Re: Richardson Barone, winner of the U.S. Nationals ? >> E6 0.026 7.932 162.59 **WINNER** 0.047 8.357 153.47 >> Jason Coan's MOV: 0.0047 seconds (approximately 13 inches). Scotty appears to be ahead (comparing not only wheels but also front ends) already, and with Scotty carrying over 10 mph on him, you'd think it'd be impossible for Coan to get there, let alone by a wheel. Either that or Indy's finish line is seriously crooked! __________________ Michael Beard - NHRA/IHRA 3216 S/SS

09-10-2007, 03:12 PM	#3
Dave Goob Cook Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Indy Posts: 422 Likes: 0 Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: Richardson Barone, winner of the U.S. Nationals ? Tough to tell from a picture taken of a TeeVee screen, but it does look wrong....... You don't suppose he dumped him having a moment do ya? Maybe the Richardsons have a new trans supplier for '08? Finish line at Indy screwy?? Say it ain't so!!!!! Ask anyone who gets screwed there at the weekly bracket events. It does look like the Barone car nose is lower at the beam height than the Coan ride...... Last edited by Dave Goob Cook; 09-10-2007 at 03:15 PM.

09-10-2007, 03:18 PM	#4
Inquiring Mind Junior Member Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 10 Likes: 0 Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: Richardson Barone, winner of the U.S. Nationals ? Beard, the finish line isn't crooked or anything like that. I've seen this happen over and over in super stock and people get screwed.... that is; the wheel of one car (Richardson/ Barone) trips the finish line beam and the nose or the "fin" (in this case) of the other car (Coans) does trip the finish line beam. Is Richardson's wheel in front of Coan's wheel?- Definitely! Is Richardsons "fin" in front of Coans "fin"? Yes! But Richardsons fin didn't trip the beam and Coans did. Could be the angle of the fin, his track placement etc etc. End of Story. It Happens all the time in Super Stock with the noses of the late model cars but now that it happened on the big stage in comp, it's coming to a forefront. Have you ever seen a guy in class run a crazy high mph and wins by a few thousandths? Same concept. It should have been done long ago. NHRA/ Imbrogno/ Foster or whomever needs to lower the finish line beams to 1 to 2 inches (In the sportsman categories) so that the front wheels of everyones car trips the beams and this will fix the problem of a late model car tripping the beams with his nose and the other older car tripping the wheel with the wheels. Or in this case a fin of one car tripping the beam and the other cars fin not tripping the beam. In the PRO categories they can leave the beams the way they are so that the cars don't jump over the low "sportsman" beam. They could have this programmed in the computer.

09-10-2007, 06:27 PM	#5
Michael Beard VIP Member Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Columbus, OH Posts: 4,060 Likes: 0 Liked 13 Times in 9 Posts	Re: Richardson Barone, winner of the U.S. Nationals ? Here's a shot somebody posted on DRR... Not even looking at Scotty's 'fin', the sloped nose of the car has to trip the beam. Above and beyond that, even Coan's nose isn't 13" in front of Scotty's front tire, even if there wasn't body work in front of it! __________________ Michael Beard - NHRA/IHRA 3216 S/SS

09-10-2007, 06:49 PM	#6
Keith Mayers Junior Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 15 Likes: 0 Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: Richardson Barone, winner of the U.S. Nationals ? this opens a can of worms. steve johnson all over again? what will be the answer, mike, you sure look right to me. __________________ Keith Mayers 2005 H/R W/C www.mayersmotorsports.com

09-10-2007, 07:54 PM	#7
Inquiring Mind Junior Member Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 10 Likes: 0 Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: Richardson Barone, winner of the U.S. Nationals ? I know what you are saying Beard. Scotty's nose/ front end should have tripped the beam but that's my point. It doesn't always work that way, that's why you see mph fluctuation sometimes of 3 to 5mph (sometimes the front ends take it and sometimes they do not). It happens all the time, thats why they need to lower the beams. It would make it a tire to tire race and take all the guesswork out. No more wondering. Bottom line, Scotty and Barone got screwed (but so have alot of other people in the same situation) This is a totally different deal than the Pro Stock Bike.

09-10-2007, 10:24 PM	#8
Rich Biebel VIP Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Northern New Jersey suburbs Posts: 2,314 Likes: 25 Liked 544 Times in 213 Posts	Re: Richardson Barone, winner of the U.S. Nationals ? I lost a race this past weekend where I was on the brakes and ran over 1.5 mph faster than my best run over 3 days. No doubt in my mind the lights were tripped by my nose on that run and it looks clear that Scotty should have "dumped" to get the win at Indy. I had not seen those pictures before.......Racers obvioulsy have to know their own cars and what and where they trip the lights with.......I thought about it on my car but never addressed the problem and now it bit me.......... __________________ Rich Biebel S/C 1479 Stock 147R

09-11-2007, 05:36 PM	#9
Larry Sullivan Member Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Baytown, TX Posts: 340 Likes: 0 Liked 3 Times in 1 Post	Re: Richardson Barone, winner of the U.S. Nationals ? (Redirected. May affect every Video frames are misleading - the top of the frame was scanned 1/60th of a second before the bottom of the screen frame (30 frames per second, two interlaced scans per frame), so the car in the nearer lane always appears to be ahead of its actual position because it was scanned later. In other words, you need a snapshot, not a vertically scanned video image, in order to get a true picture, or you need a video system that scans a lot quicker than 30 frames per second. The MOV in this example (.0047) is much smaller than the video frame uncertainty (.0167). And, given the angle of the finish stripe in the frame, the camera was not perpendicular to the track, further distorting the image.

09-11-2007, 08:45 PM	#10
mannymen Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2003 Posts: 728 Likes: 5 Liked 13 Times in 7 Posts	Re: Richardson Barone, winner of the U.S. Nationals ? (Redirected. May affect every Did anyone out there Tivo the finals? __________________ N/A