I am so confused!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Bob Mulry · 09-21-2007, 04:17 PM

I thought this was the new and improved NHRA that is now dedicated to Safety & Sportsman Racing?

I am not sure that NHRA motives are pure and that they advance our sport??

I have no problem with the sport of drag racing changing, but I do have a problem when the NHRA doesn't give a reason for the change.

What is the benefit to the competitors for combining the fuel injected cars with the non-fuel injected??

Why is NHRA doing this and what is the expected outcome of this change?

What is the benefit to the competitors for combining the stick & auto class??

Why is NHRA doing this and what is the expected outcome of this change?

NHRA will never, I repeat never get the calculations right that will give an equal opportunity for sticks and autos in the same class heads-up.

What do you give to an A/SA that races an A/S or a U/SA Powerglide vs. the same combo with a 4 speed??

Has NHRA started a wildfire with the racers to conceal their real motives??

I asked this before and NEVER gotten a response from NHRA:

What is the 1 week plan??

What is the 1 month plan??

What is the 1 year plan??

What is the 5 year plan??

They know, they are just not telling us.

Bob

Andys dad · 09-21-2007, 05:11 PM

I got this from Len yesterday when I asked why:

Regarding class consolidation, many racers want more heads-up class racing and feel NHRA should let the system work as it was designed, based on weight to horsepower regardless of the type of induction system. This could also be the future direction with front wheel drive classes as well. Also, this move reduces the amount of classes by 26 which helps the contingency sponsor program. Contingency sponsors budgets keep getting pushed and stretched in many directions and we must do what we can to continue to keep them interested in NHRA class racing. As many agree, there are way too many classes in NHRA Stock and Super Stock Eliminator categories and we must continue to look at ways to reduce the overall number of classes.

Ray Menard · 09-21-2007, 05:22 PM

My input...

I refer to Nitro Joe's stats and see the following:

Total active NHRA S/S cars in the country - 920

# NHRA S/S Classes - 92

Classes with less than 5 active cars - 41 (45%)

Classes with more than 25 active cars - 15 (16%)

At Dallas Nationals this weekend, 56 S/S cars have made their 1st qualifying pass.
20 classes had only 1 car and only 13 classes had 2 or more cars.

If we're not careful, we have 920 classes (one for each active car in the country!

Bob Mulry · 09-21-2007, 06:57 PM

Hi Ray,

I know one way to have more heads up races without changing a thing.

How about NHRA puts a realistic quota in place, so lets see what we have at Ennis.

How about we use your number of 92 for total S/S classes.

The quota is 70 cars and I think that will not result in many heads up races.

I think that I might see the problem, because all we have to do is look a little deeper.

So now we lump the fuel injected and non-fuel injected cars together, but we reduce the quotas.

The result is that we have to consolidate more, so we put the sticks & autos together, reduce the quota and guess what?????

We still have a problem so lets put S/S & Stock together and see what happens?

I can see the future and it's very dark.

NHRA thinks that we are too stupid to take the action that's needed to save sportsman racing.

Same old NHRA, same old racers.

I think the only plan that NHRA has is to get us fighting amongst ourselves so we will leave NHRA alone.

Does NHRA have a growth plan for the sportsmen??

We all thought that the sportsmen would be better off without the PROs, what a joke.

Will NHRA having no plan they can have a solution.

They just use crisis management to resolve ALL of the issues of sportsmen racing.

NHRA never came out in public with the reasons for these changes, I mean the real reason, and not what NHRA wants you to believe.

Bob

PS:

If NHRA put half the effort into expanding stock as they put into reducing it the outcome might be different?????

AND

A PS FOR RAY:

What was the total car count for active S/S racers in:

2006????

2005????

2004????

2003????

2002????

2001????

is it getting better or worse????

Is the plan working?????

Trevor Weiss · 09-21-2007, 07:50 PM

Right on Bob, I would say you have hit the nail's on the head. I have this to say, in the past when NHRA has given us enhancements every one was screaming. So NHRA has been watching and found a better way and that is to make the RACER'S enhance the RACER'S which goes along with what you said and that is to get racer's fighting each other while they seceretly go forward with no heat on them to the next enhancement.
I am also going to add this in this post. This is my opinion, by eliminating 2-steps from stock there is what I feel is going to be some what of a saftey issue with the stick cars. If you end up with no way to control starting line RPM you may be hitting the high end rev limiter, in my case over 7500rpm there is going to be alot of stress on parts that you did not have before so you may end up blowing engines, rear ends, trannsmissions and so on. I personally do not want to do any of that at any point on the track and then get fined for oil downs! If you are putting more stress on the rear end for example and it does not break on the starting line but rather it blows further down track and locks up or what ever the chances are pretty good that it may end up getting very ugly for you and maybe the guy in the other lane as well. As for the idea of flashing with a stick that is stupid, with my combo it is built to run above 5000rpm so to leave by flashing I will be slower and with the drop of 2 tenths on the index's that is just stupid again. I think the elimination of 2-steps is a giant ball of CRAP! With all of this crap these last two races in Div. 2 Atlanta and Reynolds may be my last if I can not come up with a leagal way to control the starting line rpm. So keep on taking away and there wont be any one left but the Fletchers,Biondos, Zanes ect. And Yes I know most of this did not belong on this thread. I just feel there are other fish to fry then the 2-step issue. Trevor Weiss B/S 2891

Rory McNeil · 09-21-2007, 11:19 PM

I find it odd that NHRA wants to reduce the number of classes in Stock, yet every time you turn around, they are adding ANOTHER class to Comp Eliminator, which normally has considerably less car count at a NHRA race han Stock or SS. First NHRA dropped the Stock truck classes, now the FI classes, talk of stick and automatics combined,...(even though in recent years they seperated the sticks from the auomatics in Comp). In S/S, they seem OK with S/S as well as GT trucks, Modified Stock, Modified S/S, the MX classes as well as the GT and "traditional" S/S classes, yet I haven`t heard any talk of thinning the herds in S/S or Comp. Maybe they want t make more room for the "Sport Compact" revolution!

Jim Wahl · 09-22-2007, 11:38 AM

No Rory, FIRST NHRA dropped the FWD classes! You people seem to forget all about us. THEY DROPPED US! Only with a year of begging and dealing mostly with people who have no idea what a race track looks like, we wound up with 4 classes total. Autos and sticks together and huge weight breaks. We had 16 classes, now we have 5. This cut our car count in half. Your next!!!

Lynn A McCarty · 09-22-2007, 12:38 PM

AHFS will never get it right because it is a flawed system by design. It artificially keeps the fast cars on the top with no hope for change. Do you realize how fast a combo must be to average with a six-sigma spread a second under? This means there must be an equal distribution of cars ABOVE and below the average. Of course this does not include sandbagging further exacerbating the average.

A class in high school statistics would solve the problem. Otherwise just like Bob pointied out the fuel injected cars will always be on top along with all the other bogus combos in S/SS. It is either purposely designed that way, or vastly applied unscientific methods to mask as a scientific event.

Racers need to stand up and get it changed. It isnt that difficult to do it better. I think it is better than doing nothing, especially if people are at the throttle, but not by much. I am sure we have the knowledge to put fuel injected cars back in, but AHFS will not do it.

Lynn

09-21-2007, 04:17 PM	#1
Bob Mulry VIP Member Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Coarsegold, CA Posts: 1,016 Likes: 57 Liked 320 Times in 102 Posts	I am so confused!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I thought this was the new and improved NHRA that is now dedicated to Safety & Sportsman Racing? I am not sure that NHRA motives are pure and that they advance our sport?? I have no problem with the sport of drag racing changing, but I do have a problem when the NHRA doesn't give a reason for the change. What is the benefit to the competitors for combining the fuel injected cars with the non-fuel injected?? Why is NHRA doing this and what is the expected outcome of this change? What is the benefit to the competitors for combining the stick & auto class?? Why is NHRA doing this and what is the expected outcome of this change? NHRA will never, I repeat never get the calculations right that will give an equal opportunity for sticks and autos in the same class heads-up. What do you give to an A/SA that races an A/S or a U/SA Powerglide vs. the same combo with a 4 speed?? Has NHRA started a wildfire with the racers to conceal their real motives?? I asked this before and NEVER gotten a response from NHRA: What is the 1 week plan?? What is the 1 month plan?? What is the 1 year plan?? What is the 5 year plan?? They know, they are just not telling us. Bob __________________ Bob Mulry 7516 STK A & M Motorsports Last edited by Bob Mulry; 09-21-2007 at 08:02 PM.

09-21-2007, 05:11 PM	#2
Andys dad VIP Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Arcadia, Ca Posts: 1,571 Likes: 48 Liked 175 Times in 78 Posts	Re: I am so confused!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I got this from Len yesterday when I asked why: Regarding class consolidation, many racers want more heads-up class racing and feel NHRA should let the system work as it was designed, based on weight to horsepower regardless of the type of induction system. This could also be the future direction with front wheel drive classes as well. Also, this move reduces the amount of classes by 26 which helps the contingency sponsor program. Contingency sponsors budgets keep getting pushed and stretched in many directions and we must do what we can to continue to keep them interested in NHRA class racing. As many agree, there are way too many classes in NHRA Stock and Super Stock Eliminator categories and we must continue to look at ways to reduce the overall number of classes.

09-21-2007, 05:22 PM	#3
Ray Menard Junior Member Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Scottsdale, AZ Posts: 49 Likes: 0 Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: I am so confused!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! My input... I refer to Nitro Joe's stats and see the following: Total active NHRA S/S cars in the country - 920 # NHRA S/S Classes - 92 Classes with less than 5 active cars - 41 (45%) Classes with more than 25 active cars - 15 (16%) At Dallas Nationals this weekend, 56 S/S cars have made their 1st qualifying pass. 20 classes had only 1 car and only 13 classes had 2 or more cars. If we're not careful, we have 920 classes (one for each active car in the country! __________________ Ray Menard SS/CS (SS/DM & SS/EM) #7386

09-21-2007, 06:57 PM	#4
Bob Mulry VIP Member Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Coarsegold, CA Posts: 1,016 Likes: 57 Liked 320 Times in 102 Posts	Re: I am so confused!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Hi Ray, I know one way to have more heads up races without changing a thing. How about NHRA puts a realistic quota in place, so lets see what we have at Ennis. How about we use your number of 92 for total S/S classes. The quota is 70 cars and I think that will not result in many heads up races. I think that I might see the problem, because all we have to do is look a little deeper. So now we lump the fuel injected and non-fuel injected cars together, but we reduce the quotas. The result is that we have to consolidate more, so we put the sticks & autos together, reduce the quota and guess what????? We still have a problem so lets put S/S & Stock together and see what happens? I can see the future and it's very dark. NHRA thinks that we are too stupid to take the action that's needed to save sportsman racing. Same old NHRA, same old racers. I think the only plan that NHRA has is to get us fighting amongst ourselves so we will leave NHRA alone. Does NHRA have a growth plan for the sportsmen?? We all thought that the sportsmen would be better off without the PROs, what a joke. Will NHRA having no plan they can have a solution. They just use crisis management to resolve ALL of the issues of sportsmen racing. NHRA never came out in public with the reasons for these changes, I mean the real reason, and not what NHRA wants you to believe. Bob PS: If NHRA put half the effort into expanding stock as they put into reducing it the outcome might be different????? AND A PS FOR RAY: What was the total car count for active S/S racers in: 2006???? 2005???? 2004???? 2003???? 2002???? 2001???? is it getting better or worse???? Is the plan working????? __________________ Bob Mulry 7516 STK A & M Motorsports Last edited by Bob Mulry; 09-21-2007 at 08:05 PM.

09-21-2007, 07:50 PM	#5
Trevor Weiss Junior Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 67 Likes: 0 Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: I am so confused!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Right on Bob, I would say you have hit the nail's on the head. I have this to say, in the past when NHRA has given us enhancements every one was screaming. So NHRA has been watching and found a better way and that is to make the RACER'S enhance the RACER'S which goes along with what you said and that is to get racer's fighting each other while they seceretly go forward with no heat on them to the next enhancement. I am also going to add this in this post. This is my opinion, by eliminating 2-steps from stock there is what I feel is going to be some what of a saftey issue with the stick cars. If you end up with no way to control starting line RPM you may be hitting the high end rev limiter, in my case over 7500rpm there is going to be alot of stress on parts that you did not have before so you may end up blowing engines, rear ends, trannsmissions and so on. I personally do not want to do any of that at any point on the track and then get fined for oil downs! If you are putting more stress on the rear end for example and it does not break on the starting line but rather it blows further down track and locks up or what ever the chances are pretty good that it may end up getting very ugly for you and maybe the guy in the other lane as well. As for the idea of flashing with a stick that is stupid, with my combo it is built to run above 5000rpm so to leave by flashing I will be slower and with the drop of 2 tenths on the index's that is just stupid again. I think the elimination of 2-steps is a giant ball of CRAP! With all of this crap these last two races in Div. 2 Atlanta and Reynolds may be my last if I can not come up with a leagal way to control the starting line rpm. So keep on taking away and there wont be any one left but the Fletchers,Biondos, Zanes ect. And Yes I know most of this did not belong on this thread. I just feel there are other fish to fry then the 2-step issue. Trevor Weiss B/S 2891

09-21-2007, 11:19 PM	#6
Rory McNeil VIP Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: from Vancouver BC Canada, now in Nova Scotia Posts: 1,307 Likes: 312 Liked 1,089 Times in 298 Posts	Re: I am so confused!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I find it odd that NHRA wants to reduce the number of classes in Stock, yet every time you turn around, they are adding ANOTHER class to Comp Eliminator, which normally has considerably less car count at a NHRA race han Stock or SS. First NHRA dropped the Stock truck classes, now the FI classes, talk of stick and automatics combined,...(even though in recent years they seperated the sticks from the auomatics in Comp). In S/S, they seem OK with S/S as well as GT trucks, Modified Stock, Modified S/S, the MX classes as well as the GT and "traditional" S/S classes, yet I haven`t heard any talk of thinning the herds in S/S or Comp. Maybe they want t make more room for the "Sport Compact" revolution! __________________ NHRA 6390 STK M/S 85 Mustang

09-22-2007, 11:38 AM	#7
Jim Wahl Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Central Florida Posts: 5,843 Likes: 666 Liked 683 Times in 129 Posts	Re: I am so confused!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! No Rory, FIRST NHRA dropped the FWD classes! You people seem to forget all about us. THEY DROPPED US! Only with a year of begging and dealing mostly with people who have no idea what a race track looks like, we wound up with 4 classes total. Autos and sticks together and huge weight breaks. We had 16 classes, now we have 5. This cut our car count in half. Your next!!! __________________ Jim Wahl....NHRA #2239 S/SS - IHRA # 8 Stock, D2 Stock Champion (forever I guess) 2019 Baby Gators Stock Champion 2009 D2 National Open Stock Champion 1981 D2 West Palm Beach LDRS SS Runner Up Past President, Southern Stock / Super Stock Association. Last edited by Jim Wahl; 09-22-2007 at 11:45 AM.

09-22-2007, 12:38 PM	#8
Lynn A McCarty Member Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Plainfield (INDY) Indiana Posts: 468 Likes: 1 Liked 3 Times in 3 Posts	Re: I am so confused!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! AHFS will never get it right because it is a flawed system by design. It artificially keeps the fast cars on the top with no hope for change. Do you realize how fast a combo must be to average with a six-sigma spread a second under? This means there must be an equal distribution of cars ABOVE and below the average. Of course this does not include sandbagging further exacerbating the average. A class in high school statistics would solve the problem. Otherwise just like Bob pointied out the fuel injected cars will always be on top along with all the other bogus combos in S/SS. It is either purposely designed that way, or vastly applied unscientific methods to mask as a scientific event. Racers need to stand up and get it changed. It isnt that difficult to do it better. I think it is better than doing nothing, especially if people are at the throttle, but not by much. I am sure we have the knowledge to put fuel injected cars back in, but AHFS will not do it. Lynn Last edited by Lynn A McCarty; 09-22-2007 at 12:47 PM.