HP Adjustments on NHRA.com

[SSDiv6]

Originally Posted by Ed Wright

Uh, not supposed to move the firewall, right?

Ed, the Thesaurus shows the synonym for "Supposed" as follows: hypothetical, theoretical, imaginary, invented, believed, assumed, alleged, understood, rumored, said, meant , intended, expected, thought,...

On the other hand, the Antonym for "Supposed" is "Actual"

The current rule is open for creativity and interpretation...

FIREWALL
The lower portion of the OEM firewall may be replaced with steel
of equal or greater thickness than OEM. Chevy Cavaliers, Pontiac
Grand Ams and Sunfires, and Ford Escorts may have firewall
replaced or relocated, provided the measurement from the rear of
the radiator core support to the firewall is 34 inches maximum. For
Chevy Cobalt the radiator core support to the firewall is 33 inches
maximum. For all other vehicles, firewall must be in the original
location. A complete one-piece steel firewall that resembles OEM
must be installed, welded in place, and sealed from the driver
compartment. The firewall must extend to and attach to the floor.
The firewall and mid-plate must be two separate pieces. All motor
plates, mid-plates, etc. must be separate from and may not be
attached to the firewall.

[SS/GSI]

Right or wrong, this platform for AHFS has been implemented in GT and as long as it took NHRA to approve it, will take them twice as long to change it, so get use to it. I my humble opinion I believe that different inclass WB should reflect the vehicle configuration(FWD vs RWD) however I wouldn't even know how to calculate that. HP is HP and yes the FWD cars have an advantage, how much, that depends on the vehicle in question; however I believe the bigger problem is the AHFS system itself and not the drivers, engine combos, or vehicle configurations. If it were up to me, and the car count would allow for it, I would split the class into a "Nostalgia SS Class" (compiled of traditional SS and RWD GT) and "Modified SS" (compiled of FWD GT, Modified SS and FX SS). All that being said I'm just happy to have a National sanctioning body platform to race on and I will support the NHRA because as flawed as they can be from time to time, there is still no better feeling in the world than winning a Wally. C u all @ the Big Go! Let the HP wars begin! LOL

[Michael Beard]

Originally Posted by SSDiv6

Michael's stated the engine is not a factor between a FWD and a RWD car.

It's not. HP is HP (again, unless there's an airflow difference). FWD conversion cars *utilize* the given HP more efficiently due to both aerodynamics and chassis. I do believe they have an advantage. It's just not a function of the engine.

[Bryan Worner]

Michael, FJ, Ed, Dick, Kevin: answer me this question??? Of the two GT type cars, FWD and RWD, which car has piled up the most Horsepower on engine combinations? Never mind, I'll answer it for you. The FWD conversion cars! Nobody knows this more than me, with my RWD 87 Camaro, that used to run an LT1 when it was at the factory hp of 275 in SS and GT! Now, because of a FWD conversion car, and a FWD conversion car ONLY, it is at 295 in GT! So I get rid of that combo and go to the L98, only to have it increased in HP from 275 to 287, because of a FWD conversion car!!!

No advantage huh???

And Kevin. I see your combo got 5 off for GT! Don't understand how that happened, because all that hp was piled up in a FWD car! I guess now he can go a second under again!

[SSDiv6]

Originally Posted by Michael Beard

It's not. HP is HP (again, unless there's an airflow difference). FWD conversion cars *utilize* the given HP more efficiently due to both aerodynamics and chassis. I do believe they have an advantage. It's just not a function of the engine.

Michael, I was referring to FJ's interpretation of your statement.

Yes, the dynamics of the FWD versus a RWD are a big differentiators as regards to performance, especially as regards to acceleration and ground effects throughout the run.

[Michael Beard]

Originally Posted by Bryan Worner

Michael, FJ, Ed, Dick, Kevin: answer me this question??? Of the two GT type cars, FWD and RWD, which car has piled up the most Horsepower on engine combinations? Never mind, I'll answer it for you. The FWD conversion cars! ( ... )

No advantage huh???

I've specifically stated that they have an advantage. I don't know how I could possibly be any clearer. I just asked why they're hitting HP instead of adjusting weight on the FWD conversions as a whole, since the advantage is not in the engine, but the car itself.

[SS/GSI]

Originally Posted by Bryan Worner

Michael, FJ, Ed, Dick, Kevin: answer me this question??? Of the two GT type cars, FWD and RWD, which car has piled up the most Horsepower on engine combinations? Never mind, I'll answer it for you. The FWD conversion cars! Nobody knows this more than me, with my RWD 87 Camaro, that used to run an LT1 when it was at the factory hp of 275 in SS and GT! Now, because of a FWD conversion car, and a FWD conversion car ONLY, it is at 295 in GT! So I get rid of that combo and go to the L98, only to have it increased in HP from 275 to 287, because of a FWD conversion car!!!

No advantage huh???

And Kevin. I see your combo got 5 off for GT! Don't understand how that happened, because all that hp was piled up in a FWD car! I guess now he can go a second under again!

Bryan, FYI only RWD GT cars will be able to use the 5HP back off the 350/300, which I think is great for the 80’s & 90's F body racers.

I do not disagree with your facts, and I do understand that most of the HP incurred onto combinations have come from FWD GT cars; however I believe the issue still remains with the AHFS system. I wish I knew what equation could be instilled in order to make it more precise; however for the time being I guess this NHRA quick fix will have to suffice.

Bryan in my humble opinion GT is the biggest reason that the SS class is such a s*#tshow to begin with. GT should have never existed and if it was to be conceived, it should have only happened to accommodate FWD cars, due to the lack of manufactured RWD V8 cars in the 2000’s. GT was created to get the newer style cars on the track in the 80’s by NHRA and the racers; however the racers input to NHRA was that the combinations available with the cars in question where sub par performance wise or too hard($$$) to make competitive. Today those 350 & 305 combinations are at the top of the qualifying sheet in SS and GT, and I like seeing that because it reinforces my theory that there should have never been GT, but because racers didn't want to give up there old 350, 327 and 283 combos, NHRA let them have GT. Now we are stuck with an abortion of a class where GT becomes increasingly more advantageous year after year due to body style, configuration, chassis materials, etc...An 80’s F body has a disadvantage to a 2000’s F body just like a 90’s cavalier has a disadvantage to a 2000’s cobalt. The GT class is doomed to be continuously criticized. We run 2 SS cars and if we want to run GT we have to incur aerodynamic disadvantages and HP factors we had little to no input into. My advice, run SS and leave GT for those who can't! Just my 2 cents. Apologizing in advance! Lol

[Ed Carpenter]

I like your thinking Kevin, but I fear alot of others won't lol.........

[RJ Sledge]

Fred

Haven't really looked at the Classification guide lately, put at one time, NHRA use to base the Mopar engine HP on Wheelbase and body design.

Every time I asked for the same consideration, for the 390 Ford in Mustang (108 in w/b) vs Fairlane (116 in w/b) it was ignored.

Mopar people obviously do a better job of writing letters and sending emails.

Hey, that's the way it works.

RJ

[Paul Precht]

Originally Posted by RJ Sledge

Fred

Haven't really looked at the Classification guide lately, put at one time, NHRA use to base the Mopar engine HP on Wheelbase and body design.

Every time I asked for the same consideration, for the 390 Ford in Mustang (108 in w/b) vs Fairlane (116 in w/b) it was ignored.

Mopar people obviously do a better job of writing letters and sending emails.

Hey, that's the way it works.

RJ

It took about 35 years for the 383 to be defactored enough to be worth running., It doesn't happen overnight, that's for sure.