Stocker roll cage bar beyond firewall rule......

[Rory McNeil]

Originally Posted by Karl Owens

That means cars that came originally equipped with a steering rack have an advantage.

Just curious as to what advantage a newer car that came with a rack & pinion steering system has that can be atributed to the steering rack, besides weight? Personally I have seen too many cobbled together rack installations in cars that origionally came with steering boxes , all in the interest of weight, space packaging, or because its "trick", with no thought given to toe change during suspension travel, bump steer, or other geometry issues. Frankly I would feel safer in a 40 year old factory engineered steering box setup in the car that was so equipped from Detroit, than some junkyard rack unit scabbed into the same car. If you are so concerned about the percieved dangers of all the dangerous "antique" factory stuff failing from age, maybe you need to either buy a new Stocker, or buy a Super Gas/Super Street full tube chassis, so you won`t be concerned about all this worn out dangerous factory installed metal. I can see it now, they allow racks, and then some people will be whining that they need to have new fabricated tube front frame rails to make it fit properly. Then they will need hand fabricated aluminum special oil pans to clear the rack. Of course new billet titanium spindles and coil over shocks would be "better" as they are purpose built and free of years of driving stress,....where does it all end? If you really feel that a rack is such a major advantage, then build a car that was factory equipped with one. I`m sure the guys racing 390/427/428 Ford unibody cars wish they didn`t have those damn shock towers in the way, same with early Novas. I bet more than a few MoPar racers wish they didn`t have to deal with the front torsion bars too. Point is, all cars have some pluses and minuses in their factory issued equipment, thats part of the challenge of the game. Besides, if NHRA doesn`t think the average racer is cabable enough to build their own header collector retaining devices, not much chance we could fabricate our own steering systems, right? As fas as I`m concerned, NHRA has already allowed far too much aftermarket lightweight (oops, I meant SAFER more modern equipment) in the class as it is.

[Billy Nees]

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Bravo!

[Robert Swartz]

Originally Posted by Billy Nees

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Bravo!

x 2

[Paul Merolla]

Well said, Rory!!!!!!

[Bill Diehl]

Originally Posted by Rory McNeil

Just curious as to what advantage a newer car that came with a rack & pinion steering system has that can be atributed to the steering rack, besides weight? Personally I have seen too many cobbled together rack installations in cars that origionally came with steering boxes , all in the interest of weight, space packaging, or because its "trick", with no thought given to toe change during suspension travel, bump steer, or other geometry issues. Frankly I would feel safer in a 40 year old factory engineered steering box setup in the car that was so equipped from Detroit, than some junkyard rack unit scabbed into the same car. If you are so concerned about the percieved dangers of all the dangerous "antique" factory stuff failing from age, maybe you need to either buy a new Stocker, or buy a Super Gas/Super Street full tube chassis, so you won`t be concerned about all this worn out dangerous factory installed metal. I can see it now, they allow racks, and then some people will be whining that they need to have new fabricated tube front frame rails to make it fit properly. Then they will need hand fabricated aluminum special oil pans to clear the rack. Of course new billet titanium spindles and coil over shocks would be "better" as they are purpose built and free of years of driving stress,....where does it all end? If you really feel that a rack is such a major advantage, then build a car that was factory equipped with one. I`m sure the guys racing 390/427/428 Ford unibody cars wish they didn`t have those damn shock towers in the way, same with early Novas. I bet more than a few MoPar racers wish they didn`t have to deal with the front torsion bars too. Point is, all cars have some pluses and minuses in their factory issued equipment, thats part of the challenge of the game. Besides, if NHRA doesn`t think the average racer is cabable enough to build their own header collector retaining devices, not much chance we could fabricate our own steering systems, right? As fas as I`m concerned, NHRA has already allowed far too much aftermarket lightweight (oops, I meant SAFER more modern equipment) in the class as it is.

If its a front steer car not much...if its a rear steer converted to a rack out in front lots.

There ya have it...I would like a rack out in front on mine too....but...hey wait, but I have got a 25.3 cage also.

Some of you guys have got to realize that there are "dual" purpose cars that are built out there, while they do fit into various NHRA "stock" eliminator classes they also are built to run with "big" power in many of the so called stock suspension "street" racing events across the country.

There can be a happy medium, just something for the purists to ponder

[kansas stocker]

Some of you might remember Pappy Welds sprint car from the '60s that 2 or three drivers died in and the car still looked good. Stronger than most bridges and no crumple area. If you don't feel safe in your stocker build a super stocker.
My $.02.
Pete

[Karl Owens]

Originally Posted by Rory McNeil

Just curious as to what advantage a newer car that came with a rack & pinion steering system has that can be atributed to the steering rack, besides weight? Personally I have seen too many cobbled together rack installations in cars that origionally came with steering boxes , all in the interest of weight, space packaging, or because its "trick", with no thought given to toe change during suspension travel, bump steer, or other geometry issues. Frankly I would feel safer in a 40 year old factory engineered steering box setup in the car that was so equipped from Detroit, than some junkyard rack unit scabbed into the same car. If you are so concerned about the percieved dangers of all the dangerous "antique" factory stuff failing from age, maybe you need to either buy a new Stocker, or buy a Super Gas/Super Street full tube chassis, so you won`t be concerned about all this worn out dangerous factory installed metal. I can see it now, they allow racks, and then some people will be whining that they need to have new fabricated tube front frame rails to make it fit properly. Then they will need hand fabricated aluminum special oil pans to clear the rack. Of course new billet titanium spindles and coil over shocks would be "better" as they are purpose built and free of years of driving stress,....where does it all end? If you really feel that a rack is such a major advantage, then build a car that was factory equipped with one. I`m sure the guys racing 390/427/428 Ford unibody cars wish they didn`t have those damn shock towers in the way, same with early Novas. I bet more than a few MoPar racers wish they didn`t have to deal with the front torsion bars too. Point is, all cars have some pluses and minuses in their factory issued equipment, thats part of the challenge of the game. Besides, if NHRA doesn`t think the average racer is cabable enough to build their own header collector retaining devices, not much chance we could fabricate our own steering systems, right? As fas as I`m concerned, NHRA has already allowed far too much aftermarket lightweight (oops, I meant SAFER more modern equipment) in the class as it is.

Thats easy for you to say because you have a 1985 Mustang which was equipped with rack and pinion steering since 1974. The first GM rear wheel drive car to have rack and pinion was the 93 Camaro/Firebird, the first rear wheel drive Mopar to have a steering rack was the Dakota truck in 87. I have a 92 Firebird which has stock type steering but heavily modified for oil pan clearance and has a 40 year old Vega steering box. My car exceeds 160 MPH in the quarter. I have personally witnessed 3 steering boxes break after coming down from a big wheelie. Ive never seen a rack break. If I did switch to a rack, I would make sure it was the correct width and make sure the bump steer was right. Steering and brakes are safety items and there should be no rules that compromise safety. NHRA allows aftermarket brakes which is far more of a performance enhancement than a steering system. Allowing front frame rails to flex is also ignoring safety.

[Billy Nees]

Originally Posted by Karl Owens

I have a 92 Firebird which has stock type steering but heavily modified for oil pan clearance and has a 40 year old Vega steering box. My car exceeds 160 MPH in the quarter. I have personally witnessed 3 steering boxes break after coming down from a big wheelie.

OK, so put a STOCK 88 S-10 manual box in it! You don't have to modify ANYTHING like you did to put in the Vega box(that has a reputation for breaking). You could have even used the original pitman arm! OH, it weighs 5-6 pounds more than the Vega box. So for a few pounds on the nose of YOUR car, let's change the rules for everybody!

[Tom keedle]

Originally Posted by Billy Nees

OK, so put a STOCK 88 S-10 manual box in it! You don't have to modify ANYTHING like you did to put in the Vega box(that has a reputation for breaking). You could have even used the original pitman arm! OH, it weighs 5-6 pounds more than the Vega box. So for a few pounds on the nose of YOUR car, let's change the rules for everybody!

or buy a repop from flaming river/mullins/borgeson....and you can get them in aluminum,too

[Karl Owens]

stock S-10 box wont work and it virtually the same anyway, my pitman arm is modified by Ed Quay to drop the entire steering system to clear my gigantic oil pan. The Firebird is a Super Stock/10.5 heads up car. Im just expressing my opinion on safety. My present stocker has a steering rack and doesn't run fast enough to even really need a helmet.