What's wrong with Stock?

Doug Blackley · 09-01-2014, 07:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by treekiller

there is a way that everybody could keep their current junk and all race each other. The traditional guys don't want to change the way things have been for years but look what NHRA is doing to y'all. Have the ***** swinging contest in class elims then take out heads ups in eliminations. Everybody has a dial in and a chance no matter who they race. Nobody has to sell anything and car counts probably go through the roof. the new car guys won't be able to stand it and the old car guys are too stubborn to get with the times andunderstand that implementing a rule like that will be the only chance they will ever have against the new cars.

Want to kill Class racing, implement that bracket only system. No one is asking for massive change like that, only that the existing rules apply equally to every car in the class. Without heads up runs in eliminations what actual incentive is there to go home and work on your "junk". Heads up runs in eliminations are the coolest part of Class racing and what real drag racing is all about.

treekiller · 09-01-2014, 08:23 PM

when you have a guy with one of the fastest older cars in the country just pack up and leave before the first round of eliminations at indythat tells you something is wrong. That man probably spend at least two or three thousand dollars to go to that race and I am sure took time off of work to go do that. can anyone answer when was the last time someone with an older setup out ran a car that was 08 or newer? Equality in hp factoring will never be a reality otherwise these people would never have spent 100-125k on these cars.

Doug Blackley · 09-01-2014, 08:39 PM

If the existing rules were applied equally to every car and not exempt certain groups there would be no issue like this. That's the whole point you're missing. Had all the FS combos been required to face the same ahfs as everyone else then factors would most certainly be more correct than they are. At one time the LT-1 and LS-1 combos had an edge due to factors but that eventually worked itself out. This exempting certain classes and thus those combos is what is the issue. And suggesting a fundamental change like you did is never an answer.

Andys dad · 09-01-2014, 09:03 PM

My simple solution is to implement AHFS for factory stock.

Now that NHRA knows what they can run -

Make the FS/A index a 9.70 and make the FS/B index a 10.0

Keep it simple add 3 tenths to the FS cars and implement AHFS starting at the next race where factory stock will be run.

Also - need to run FS at more (all) races too.

Nick Heath · 09-01-2014, 09:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andys dad

My simple solution is to implement AHFS for factory stock.

Now that NHRA knows what they can run -

Make the FS/A index a 9.70 and make the FS/B index a 10.0

Keep it simple add 3 tenths to the FS cars and implement AHFS starting at the next race where factory stock will be run.

Also - need to run FS at more (all) races too.

I like this idea. You can't have traditional AHFS for the factory cars because they aren't classified on the typical HP/weight ratio. What you could do is implement AHFS in the same way they do for the SS modified cars - index reduction. In this case, a -1.50 run is worth about a .30 index reduction, if I remember correctly.

Mike Carr · 09-01-2014, 09:28 PM

I proposed an idea the other day on my Facebook page:

Let ALL new (2008-newer) cars run FSS. That way, the cars in B/SA on down can run; right now it seems to be mostly AAA-AA-BB-CC cars. Run them handicapped, off the Class Index like Comp and the Combo Class runoffs, and AHFS can then apply since they are in their natural class, eight, etc; not an artificial Class/Index/weight. We had sixty-seven new cars at Indy; only thirty I think ran FSS. Under my proposed rule, ALL new cars would be in and make for a bigger show for NHRA and the OEM's.

Just a thought.

Tom P · 09-01-2014, 09:43 PM

Buff, that'd be a good idea as long as there isn't something like that stick 5.7 Challenger to upset all the rest of the class.

Carguy49 · 09-01-2014, 09:34 PM

According to the 2014 NHRA RULE BOOK - All cars in Stock classes must be factory-production assembled , showroom available, and in the hands of the general public. A minimum of 500 units of a particular style must be produced.

How many of the factory cars (copo's drag-packs, cobra jets) are built each year??? How many of them are available to the general public through the dealer showrooms??

I think many of the questions can be answered by examining these criteria.

Evidently NHRA doesn't follow their own rulebook.

Don't get me wrong, I love the new cars (built after 2008), they just need to be put where they belong and factored properly.

BRINK · 09-02-2014, 12:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carguy49

According to the 2014 NHRA RULE BOOK - All cars in Stock classes must be factory-production assembled , showroom available, and in the hands of the general public. A minimum of 500 units of a particular style must be produced.

How many of the factory cars (copo's drag-packs, cobra jets) are built each year??? How many of them are available to the general public through the dealer showrooms??

I think many of the questions can be answered by examining these criteria.

Evidently NHRA doesn't follow their own rulebook.

Don't get me wrong, I love the new cars (built after 2008), they just need to be put where they belong and factored properly.

Ron, you just nailed the deal. In the 1960's these cars were called "Factory Experimental". The same set of rules should apply today.

cudadoug · 09-02-2014, 01:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carguy49

According to the 2014 NHRA RULE BOOK - All cars in Stock classes must be factory-production assembled , showroom available, and in the hands of the general public. A minimum of 500 units of a particular style must be produced.

How many of the factory cars (copo's drag-packs, cobra jets) are built each year??? How many of them are available to the general public through the dealer showrooms??

I think many of the questions can be answered by examining these criteria.

Evidently NHRA doesn't follow their own rulebook.

Don't get me wrong, I love the new cars (built after 2008), they just need to be put where they belong and factored properly.

Yep. Then you have Teuton running a car/motor combo that doesn't even
exsist...Except in Glendora.

09-01-2014, 08:23 PM	#2
treekiller Member Join Date: Dec 2010 Posts: 124 Likes: 0 Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: What's wrong with Stock? when you have a guy with one of the fastest older cars in the country just pack up and leave before the first round of eliminations at indythat tells you something is wrong. That man probably spend at least two or three thousand dollars to go to that race and I am sure took time off of work to go do that. can anyone answer when was the last time someone with an older setup out ran a car that was 08 or newer? Equality in hp factoring will never be a reality otherwise these people would never have spent 100-125k on these cars.

09-01-2014, 08:39 PM	#3
Doug Blackley Member Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Hanover, MA Posts: 430 Likes: 3 Liked 1 Time in 1 Post	Re: What's wrong with Stock? If the existing rules were applied equally to every car and not exempt certain groups there would be no issue like this. That's the whole point you're missing. Had all the FS combos been required to face the same ahfs as everyone else then factors would most certainly be more correct than they are. At one time the LT-1 and LS-1 combos had an edge due to factors but that eventually worked itself out. This exempting certain classes and thus those combos is what is the issue. And suggesting a fundamental change like you did is never an answer. __________________ Doug Blackley 1697 STK Last edited by Doug Blackley; 09-01-2014 at 09:14 PM.

09-01-2014, 09:03 PM	#4
Andys dad VIP Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Arcadia, Ca Posts: 1,571 Likes: 48 Liked 175 Times in 78 Posts	Re: What's wrong with Stock? My simple solution is to implement AHFS for factory stock. Now that NHRA knows what they can run - Make the FS/A index a 9.70 and make the FS/B index a 10.0 Keep it simple add 3 tenths to the FS cars and implement AHFS starting at the next race where factory stock will be run. Also - need to run FS at more (all) races too. __________________ time is our most precious resource, you can always make more money but you can never make more time spend your time wisely with the ones you love - Ron Durham

09-01-2014, 09:28 PM	#6
Mike Carr VIP Member Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Enon Valley PA Posts: 1,650 Likes: 234 Liked 83 Times in 37 Posts	Re: What's wrong with Stock? I proposed an idea the other day on my Facebook page: Let ALL new (2008-newer) cars run FSS. That way, the cars in B/SA on down can run; right now it seems to be mostly AAA-AA-BB-CC cars. Run them handicapped, off the Class Index like Comp and the Combo Class runoffs, and AHFS can then apply since they are in their natural class, eight, etc; not an artificial Class/Index/weight. We had sixty-seven new cars at Indy; only thirty I think ran FSS. Under my proposed rule, ALL new cars would be in and make for a bigger show for NHRA and the OEM's. Just a thought. __________________ Mike Carr, Tri-State S/SS Association President Looking for 2015 S/SS Race Sponsors Contact me if interested buffdaddy_1302@hotmail.com (724) 510-5912

09-01-2014, 09:43 PM	#7
Tom P Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Posts: 707 Likes: 30 Liked 239 Times in 94 Posts	Re: What's wrong with Stock? Buff, that'd be a good idea as long as there isn't something like that stick 5.7 Challenger to upset all the rest of the class.

09-01-2014, 09:34 PM	#8
Carguy49 VIP Member Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: Fife, Washington Posts: 1,985 Likes: 2,487 Liked 2,967 Times in 713 Posts	Re: What's wrong with Stock? According to the 2014 NHRA RULE BOOK - All cars in Stock classes must be factory-production assembled , showroom available, and in the hands of the general public. A minimum of 500 units of a particular style must be produced. How many of the factory cars (copo's drag-packs, cobra jets) are built each year??? How many of them are available to the general public through the dealer showrooms?? I think many of the questions can be answered by examining these criteria. Evidently NHRA doesn't follow their own rulebook. Don't get me wrong, I love the new cars (built after 2008), they just need to be put where they belong and factored properly. __________________ Ron McDowell - Did Race Every day is a Gift - Enjoy with family and friends.