2015 Rules

[Ed Wright]

Jeff, if you had a seriously thrashed car that suddenly could not run within a couple of tenths heads up against a new car that just got put together, you would think it was broken. I'm sure, from your view, everything was fine. :-)
Lloyd told me how fast his 360" DP could go in SS/IA, not hard to calculate what it could go if dropped down in SS/JA, and I would have to spot him 40 lbs. Just about everybody I know feels like the 360" is the absolute softest deal out there. I saw the specs on the new 5.0L CJ also. Looks even worse. Or, better. Depends on if you own one. LOL
If they were just rated kinds close to begin with.....
Probably a lot cheaper for me if they had left things alone. Guess I'll go one more year.

[Jeff Teuton]

GT was specifically created for new cars with old motors including the jelly bean fwd conversions. After a few years and many requests, NHRA allowed the old cars with not matching motors in. I was asked to write a letter just because they needed a letter from someone, anyone. But what better car than a SS/AH that has just been priced out of the market to find new life in GT. They are pretty good, but no better than other combos. Time will tell, but it's still just 5% of the cars.

[Eric Merryfield]

Originally Posted by Jeff Teuton

GT was specifically created for new cars with old motors including the jelly bean fwd conversions. After a few years and many requests, NHRA allowed the old cars with not matching motors in. I was asked to write a letter just because they needed a letter from someone, anyone. But what better car than a SS/AH that has just been priced out of the market to find new life in GT. They are pretty good, but no better than other combos. Time will tell, but it's still just 5% of the cars.

Jeff, so I read it wrong I guess. So now you if you run your challenger in GT: its FGT/H instead of GT/HA......and Beards 80 Volare, and Southards 74 duster are now not in GT/HA either but in your class? FGT/H That doesn't sound right.....

[FS Fan]

Head studs and aluminum radiators I think are long overdue.

New car classes I think will be bad for the sport. As if Stock racing wasn't confusing enough let's add even more classes to ensure we won't get new fans.

The vast majority of new cars were already in their own classes, AAA, AA, BB. Even those in CC were really all new cars. In 2008 before the new cars the 7.5lbs class had two cars so it's not like the new cars ran all the old ones out of CC. Among the rest of the new cars there's maybe 20 spread out over maybe 5 classes?

The reality is that new cars now have fewer options than old cars. So we lose some new car customers. But they aren't going to build an old car, they just won't come to NHRA.
many of the new car combos there are only a handful of them, they now will not have a class to race and get dumped in a combo. Many of the old cars will suffer the same fate by the new cars moving out, especially in stick classes. Then you can run Larry Hill's pickup and Gary Summers mustang ii, who run way faster than the new cars anyway. Remember class finals in A, B, E, and G stick were old v. New at Indy this year. The A stick new car winner didn't even go -1.00 so you can't tell me he's destroying the class. The B loser was an older car that slowed in the final, earlier performance would have won over the new car.

If there is a benefit for anyone I guess the A B C class guys will no longer have the Copos to run with. Congrats. Even that is debatable as an old car beat a new car in C/SA at Indy which was a ten car field. The B & C auto winning Copo 396 took on major hp to win and will not be as competitive next time. If you don't think AHFS works look at the 5.7 Hemi auto rating.

If I was an older car I would be very concerned that the sponsors including contingency will start posting only in the new car classes. The factories and racers are spending money and getting visibility from PRI booths, to magazine stories, to Facebook pages. If you sold windows would you promote the customer who just bought brand new latest technology windows or the customer who bought windows 20 years ago that you don't make anymore? I know someone will post something like "the old window guy because it shows durability" which is novel but not the reality.

To all the posters on this thread that act like this is the greatest thing I wonder what you think got fixed, if you have actually raced against the new cars (are you currently racing at all), and if the end result will be what you want. NHRA has driven a stake between old and new with this move and the result could really hurt the old car racers.

And btw it doesn't address at all the soft index or no AHFS for the showdown events! Will those still happen?

Be careful what you wish for, you might just get it!

These rules are a lose-lose for everyone. I am just a fan but if I were a racer I'd be prepared for less money, racers going elsewhere leaving smaller fields, and fewer fans. That's my crystal ball at least.

[Andrew Hill]

Originally Posted by FS Fan

New car classes I think will be bad for the sport. As if Stock racing wasn't confusing enough let's add even more classes to ensure we won't get new fans.

It's 12 new classes, but they're removing AAA, AA, BB auto and stick, so it's only 6 more than before.

The vast majority of new cars were already in their own classes, AAA, AA, BB. Even those in CC were really all new cars. In 2008 before the new cars the 7.5lbs class had two cars so it's not like the new cars ran all the old ones out of CC. Among the rest of the new cars there's maybe 20 spread out over maybe 5 classes?

Definitely more than 20 with how many more COPOs have been coming out. There were a bunch at the Indy Fall Classic I'd never seen before. There were quite a few people who jumped into CC (well AA back then, and back to AA now) when it was created, but they jumped back down when the supercharged Mustangs were running it, and quite a few new fast combinations have been through there. I'd expect a lot more old cars in AA now.

The reality is that new cars now have fewer options than old cars. So we lose some new car customers. But they aren't going to build an old car, they just won't come to NHRA.
many of the new car combos there are only a handful of them, they now will not have a class to race and get dumped in a combo. Many of the old cars will suffer the same fate by the new cars moving out, especially in stick classes. Then you can run Larry Hill's pickup and Gary Summers mustang ii, who run way faster than the new cars anyway. Remember class finals in A, B, E, and G stick were old v. New at Indy this year. The A stick new car winner didn't even go -1.00 so you can't tell me he's destroying the class. The B loser was an older car that slowed in the final, earlier performance would have won over the new car.

I don't see how this changes new cars options. There are still all of the same engine combinations for them to run, and if someone wants to build one just to pick on the old cars, I personally don't care if they don't show up. If a guy wants to build a new car to showcase the new technology coming out of the parts catalogs, he still can.

As far as A, B, E, and G stick at Indy. I watched the A car blow the tires off in 1st gear and still run 9.60s at the Fall Classic, and he went 1.14 under at Indy. Indy was the very first race for the B car, and it went .11 faster on its best run than the old car and was down 10 mph. I don't really think you can consider the E/S final a race. There were 3 old cars in G/S this year.

If there is a benefit for anyone I guess the A B C class guys will no longer have the Copos to run with. Congrats. Even that is debatable as an old car beat a new car in C/SA at Indy which was a ten car field. The B & C auto winning Copo 396 took on major hp to win and will not be as competitive next time. If you don't think AHFS works look at the 5.7 Hemi auto rating.

In order for the AHFS to work, somebody has to actually run one out. If you think the AHFS does work, look at the 5.7 Hemi stick rating and the class final in E/S at Indy.

If I was an older car I would be very concerned that the sponsors including contingency will start posting only in the new car classes. The factories and racers are spending money and getting visibility from PRI booths, to magazine stories, to Facebook pages. If you sold windows would you promote the customer who just bought brand new latest technology windows or the customer who bought windows 20 years ago that you don't make anymore? I know someone will post something like "the old window guy because it shows durability" which is novel but not the reality.

So the majority of contingency money is from aftermarket parts suppliers who do not know or care what type of car you're using their part on. The OEMs have stepped up lately and added some good contingency money in for the new cars, but I have no problem with that when they spend so much money on those cars. I don't see a situation other than that where contingency could be posted only for new cars.

To all the posters on this thread that act like this is the greatest thing I wonder what you think got fixed, if you have actually raced against the new cars (are you currently racing at all), and if the end result will be what you want. NHRA has driven a stake between old and new with this move and the result could really hurt the old car racers.

And btw it doesn't address at all the soft index or no AHFS for the showdown events! Will those still happen?

Be careful what you wish for, you might just get it!

These rules are a lose-lose for everyone. I am just a fan but if I were a racer I'd be prepared for less money, racers going elsewhere leaving smaller fields, and fewer fans. That's my crystal ball at least.

This is absolutely, without question, a win for the class. You will see quite a few old cars come back out when they do not have to worry about losing heads up to a new, under factored, car.

I do not have to run new cars heads up, in class or eliminations. I have raced against new cars, and I've won and lost. However, going to Indy to get my *** kicked by a 352 Mustang or 5.9 Challenger does not sound enticing to me. I will be at Indy this year. Yes, it does not address the low horsepower ratings, but we also do not have the indexes yet, so we will have to wait and see.

This is a major step in the right direction, and you will see more cars at the racetrack because of it.

[Ed Wright]

Jeff, I only have about six years experience on you.

Specs mean everything. If you admit you can run 8.90s, that only illustrates how bogus your 360"' engine's hp rating actually is.

When I talk about a car that has been thrashed, you know I'm talking about a car, not a brand of cars. The LT1 combo you talk about has been thrashed longer than the Drag Paks have been in production. You know that.

How is this new deal going to hurt you personally? Or your racing? You just may not be the fast guy in class any longer? Might have to go to work to try to be faster than the other DPs, CJs or COPOs in your class? Same as the rest of us always have?

At least you use your real name. :-)

[Mickey Whaley]

someone may get slapped at the back door

[Ed Carpenter]

Originally Posted by Eric Merryfield

Jeff, so I read it wrong I guess. So now you if you run your challenger in GT: its FGT/H instead of GT/HA......and Beards 80 Volare, and Southards 74 duster are now not in GT/HA either but in your class? FGT/H That doesn't sound right.....

Eric yes Beard's car will now be in FGT/H. Because it has a new 360 engine combo. I texted Mike yesterday and said how's it feel to run with the big boys now lol.......Just having fun with Mike he took it in stride.

[Michael Beard]

RE: aluminum radiators, IHRA's allowed them for a long time. Common sense.

RE: Factory classes: We established "FX" classes at the Northern Class Nationals from the beginning. I welcome NHRA's new class structures, and we will utilize these at next year's event. Class Eliminations with no AHFS will be a great show!

Originally Posted by deuces wild

Eric yes Beard's car will now be in FGT/H. Because it has a new 360 engine combo. I texted Mike yesterday and said how's it feel to run with the big boys now lol.......Just having fun with Mike he took it in stride.

They did me a favor (not just because I make full-color printed decals, either!) I've never been a threat to the other cars in my class, but rather the other way around, since I have very little budget. I'll basically have my own class now, and don't have to worry about heads-up runs, since I rarely if ever see Jeff or Jamie. Also due to the GT separation of FWD and RWD combos, the only people that can really get my HP hit would be Bardekoff or Stancil's car, but the rest of us are holding the average down. Without the fast traditional cars in the class to push people, it's going to take a lot more new cars in order to push each other to get them factored where they belong.

They really ought to tag the Factory indexes, quite a lot honestly. I'd be surprised if they hit 'em with a superficial -.10 on the indexes due to the politics involved, though.

The numbers of the new cars will go down

I see zero reason for any new car to quit, nor for any new car being built to be shelved, even if they announced that the Factory indexes would be lowered -.30 (which they won't, anyway).

[Greg Hill]

The one thing I'm going to miss about the new cars in my class is making them run hard enough to get instant hp on Monday. Course I sold my car, but we still have Andrew's.