2015 Rules - Page 8

Bob Mulry · 10-31-2014, 02:37 AM

Shifting gears from the Pro Stock Stockers..............

After 15 years of lobbying NHRA for head studs they finally did it......

No more Heli-Coils in 40 year old blocks.......

Thanks to NHRA...Better late than never........

Bob

Eric Merryfield · 10-31-2014, 03:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeff Teuton

GT was specifically created for new cars with old motors including the jelly bean fwd conversions. After a few years and many requests, NHRA allowed the old cars with not matching motors in. I was asked to write a letter just because they needed a letter from someone, anyone. But what better car than a SS/AH that has just been priced out of the market to find new life in GT. They are pretty good, but no better than other combos. Time will tell, but it's still just 5% of the cars.

Jeff, so I read it wrong I guess. So now you if you run your challenger in GT: its FGT/H instead of GT/HA......and Beards 80 Volare, and Southards 74 duster are now not in GT/HA either but in your class? FGT/H That doesn't sound right.....

FS Fan · 10-31-2014, 05:21 AM

Head studs and aluminum radiators I think are long overdue.

New car classes I think will be bad for the sport. As if Stock racing wasn't confusing enough let's add even more classes to ensure we won't get new fans.

The vast majority of new cars were already in their own classes, AAA, AA, BB. Even those in CC were really all new cars. In 2008 before the new cars the 7.5lbs class had two cars so it's not like the new cars ran all the old ones out of CC. Among the rest of the new cars there's maybe 20 spread out over maybe 5 classes?

The reality is that new cars now have fewer options than old cars. So we lose some new car customers. But they aren't going to build an old car, they just won't come to NHRA.
many of the new car combos there are only a handful of them, they now will not have a class to race and get dumped in a combo. Many of the old cars will suffer the same fate by the new cars moving out, especially in stick classes. Then you can run Larry Hill's pickup and Gary Summers mustang ii, who run way faster than the new cars anyway. Remember class finals in A, B, E, and G stick were old v. New at Indy this year. The A stick new car winner didn't even go -1.00 so you can't tell me he's destroying the class. The B loser was an older car that slowed in the final, earlier performance would have won over the new car.

If there is a benefit for anyone I guess the A B C class guys will no longer have the Copos to run with. Congrats. Even that is debatable as an old car beat a new car in C/SA at Indy which was a ten car field. The B & C auto winning Copo 396 took on major hp to win and will not be as competitive next time. If you don't think AHFS works look at the 5.7 Hemi auto rating.

If I was an older car I would be very concerned that the sponsors including contingency will start posting only in the new car classes. The factories and racers are spending money and getting visibility from PRI booths, to magazine stories, to Facebook pages. If you sold windows would you promote the customer who just bought brand new latest technology windows or the customer who bought windows 20 years ago that you don't make anymore? I know someone will post something like "the old window guy because it shows durability" which is novel but not the reality.

To all the posters on this thread that act like this is the greatest thing I wonder what you think got fixed, if you have actually raced against the new cars (are you currently racing at all), and if the end result will be what you want. NHRA has driven a stake between old and new with this move and the result could really hurt the old car racers.

And btw it doesn't address at all the soft index or no AHFS for the showdown events! Will those still happen?

Be careful what you wish for, you might just get it!

These rules are a lose-lose for everyone. I am just a fan but if I were a racer I'd be prepared for less money, racers going elsewhere leaving smaller fields, and fewer fans. That's my crystal ball at least.

Ven302 · 10-31-2014, 07:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SSDiv6

Vince, I was told a complete different story and that ANY aftermarket cast iron head will be allowed. Was also told that the GM LS cast iron 1999-2000, 6.0L,OEM truck 873 casting cylinder head was approved. This cast iron head, untouched, already has 210cc intake runner volume with a 2.0" intake valve. Add bigger valves and some extensive porting, they will flow 360+ CFM's.

If any of the Ford racers are interested, I know were a pair of brand new untouched RHS Ford, 20 degree cast iron cylinder heads with 225cc intake volume heads and 57cc chambers, are located.

Its VENICE,

The rule does not say ANY, it says aftermarket, and I specifically asked about rolled over and Australian pro action stuff when I talked with Bruce. That is not the intent. NHRA always has to have something aftermarket on the approved list, so far there are only two. My only concern is that as a class competitor we were not asked our opinion. Nonetheless it would not be wise to start a cylinder head program for one of these cars without making sure the castings are legit. There is no proof that either of those heads are going to ruin my combo, and if it makes more people think they can do it easier I am all for that. I will take Bruce on his word before i would build an engine on hearsay. DO YOU run CS? If so you should put your name on your posts. I am sure Bogner, Menard (RWR). Hudson, Antonette, Mans, Groves et-al ( sorry if I missed anyone) know what it takes to go fast in this class. The heads are just one piece of the puzzle. Its really easy to put one of these together, bring it on out!

Marty Buth · 10-31-2014, 07:12 AM

So, if a car running in one of the FS classes is the only one in their class at a National event where class wins are contested, will they be folded into the combo with non FS stock eliminator cars or will FS cars have their own combo?

SSDiv6 · 10-31-2014, 08:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ven302

SS/CS Heads,
I talked with Bruce this afternoon, he told me that presently only two heads are approved ( both from Dart for the chevy), one is a 180 cc, the scary one is the 230cc 308 cfm head as cast. I got the feeling that just any iron heads wont be the deal. But they needed to have something to help the Chevrolet guys as they were cracking heads in short order. Knowing what these engines can break, I would not wish that on anybody. While I am concerned we all know that port volume or cfm do not only make the HP, I have worked an awful lot of stuff to find .07 over the year, so I cant imagine we will be obsolete, YET. Bruce and the NHRA seem to be aware of how touchy this is. The good thing is that there should be more trying out the SS/CS water, I can attest to the warmth (DAMN near boiling!). My biggest fear is that the class dwindles to 5 or 6 cars then gets written off.

My APOLOGIES for misspelling your name, Venice.

If they are the only two approved cylinder heads for the GM brand, then NHRA has to publish it. Too many times I have been told by NHRA to go ahead and proceed to do a change even when I have been given a written approval just to be rescinded months later. Therefore, unless it is on the approved list, there are no guarantees.

As a matter of fact, I proposed the RHS/Pro Action cylinder heads for the Ford application as an alternate cylinder head. I submitted all the technical data, pictures and even offered to bring a head to a race. After awaiting for a response for a full year, I just gave up.

As regards to running SS/CS, I was going to run in the class. Nevertheless, since I already had knowledge of the upcoming rule and it will eventually be an exercise in futility, the car is being built to run in Comp Eliminator Super Modified with D3 cylinder heads.

As regards to the LS cast iron cylinder head, it will outflow the N351 and it is an OEM cylinder head according to NHRA.

Another Friendly Racer · 10-31-2014, 09:25 AM

Mr. (or Mrs.) FS FAN,

Be careful what we wish for? You are right. I should continue to show up at the track and get my doors blown off week in and week out by a new car. Yep, good idea. Let the new cars win and guys with an old car, go be a duck a smile. Hey, 1 out of a 100 times an old car will win, look at this one race at indy!

Thank you NHRA! I really don't care if I can no longer qualify at Indy, at least I can race again.

MEXJOE · 10-31-2014, 09:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Randall Klein

Ah! I see the window lettering dealers musta paid off Glendora! LOL

EZ, Now, Randall

Ed Carpenter · 10-31-2014, 11:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eric Merryfield

Jeff, so I read it wrong I guess. So now you if you run your challenger in GT: its FGT/H instead of GT/HA......and Beards 80 Volare, and Southards 74 duster are now not in GT/HA either but in your class? FGT/H That doesn't sound right.....

Eric yes Beard's car will now be in FGT/H. Because it has a new 360 engine combo. I texted Mike yesterday and said how's it feel to run with the big boys now lol.......Just having fun with Mike he took it in stride.

Bill Diehl · 10-31-2014, 11:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SSDiv6

My APOLOGIES for misspelling your name, Venice.

If they are the only two approved cylinder heads for the GM brand, then NHRA has to publish it. Too many times I have been told by NHRA to go ahead and proceed to do a change even when I have been given a written approval just to be rescinded months later. Therefore, unless it is on the approved list, there are no guarantees.

As a matter of fact, I proposed the RHS/Pro Action cylinder heads for the Ford application as an alternate cylinder head. I submitted all the technical data, pictures and even offered to bring a head to a race. After awaiting for a response for a full year, I just gave up.

As regards to running SS/CS, I was going to run in the class. Nevertheless, since I already had knowledge of the upcoming rule and it will eventually be an exercise in futility, the car is being built to run in Comp Eliminator Super Modified with D3 cylinder heads.

As regards to the LS cast iron cylinder head, it will outflow the N351 and it is an OEM cylinder head according to NHRA.

That will be a nice piece

10-31-2014, 02:37 AM	#71
Bob Mulry VIP Member Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Coarsegold, CA Posts: 1,016 Likes: 57 Liked 320 Times in 102 Posts	Re: 2015 Rules Shifting gears from the Pro Stock Stockers.............. After 15 years of lobbying NHRA for head studs they finally did it...... No more Heli-Coils in 40 year old blocks....... Thanks to NHRA...Better late than never........ Bob __________________ Bob Mulry 7516 STK A & M Motorsports

10-31-2014, 05:21 AM	#73
FS Fan Junior Member Join Date: Apr 2014 Posts: 34 Likes: 0 Liked 1 Time in 1 Post	Re: 2015 Rules Head studs and aluminum radiators I think are long overdue. New car classes I think will be bad for the sport. As if Stock racing wasn't confusing enough let's add even more classes to ensure we won't get new fans. The vast majority of new cars were already in their own classes, AAA, AA, BB. Even those in CC were really all new cars. In 2008 before the new cars the 7.5lbs class had two cars so it's not like the new cars ran all the old ones out of CC. Among the rest of the new cars there's maybe 20 spread out over maybe 5 classes? The reality is that new cars now have fewer options than old cars. So we lose some new car customers. But they aren't going to build an old car, they just won't come to NHRA. many of the new car combos there are only a handful of them, they now will not have a class to race and get dumped in a combo. Many of the old cars will suffer the same fate by the new cars moving out, especially in stick classes. Then you can run Larry Hill's pickup and Gary Summers mustang ii, who run way faster than the new cars anyway. Remember class finals in A, B, E, and G stick were old v. New at Indy this year. The A stick new car winner didn't even go -1.00 so you can't tell me he's destroying the class. The B loser was an older car that slowed in the final, earlier performance would have won over the new car. If there is a benefit for anyone I guess the A B C class guys will no longer have the Copos to run with. Congrats. Even that is debatable as an old car beat a new car in C/SA at Indy which was a ten car field. The B & C auto winning Copo 396 took on major hp to win and will not be as competitive next time. If you don't think AHFS works look at the 5.7 Hemi auto rating. If I was an older car I would be very concerned that the sponsors including contingency will start posting only in the new car classes. The factories and racers are spending money and getting visibility from PRI booths, to magazine stories, to Facebook pages. If you sold windows would you promote the customer who just bought brand new latest technology windows or the customer who bought windows 20 years ago that you don't make anymore? I know someone will post something like "the old window guy because it shows durability" which is novel but not the reality. To all the posters on this thread that act like this is the greatest thing I wonder what you think got fixed, if you have actually raced against the new cars (are you currently racing at all), and if the end result will be what you want. NHRA has driven a stake between old and new with this move and the result could really hurt the old car racers. And btw it doesn't address at all the soft index or no AHFS for the showdown events! Will those still happen? Be careful what you wish for, you might just get it! These rules are a lose-lose for everyone. I am just a fan but if I were a racer I'd be prepared for less money, racers going elsewhere leaving smaller fields, and fewer fans. That's my crystal ball at least.

10-31-2014, 07:12 AM	#75
Marty Buth Member Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Freeport, IL Posts: 467 Likes: 651 Liked 232 Times in 39 Posts	Re: 2015 Rules So, if a car running in one of the FS classes is the only one in their class at a National event where class wins are contested, will they be folded into the combo with non FS stock eliminator cars or will FS cars have their own combo? __________________ Marty Buth 3657 STK

10-31-2014, 09:25 AM	#77
Another Friendly Racer Member Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 152 Likes: 0 Liked 19 Times in 6 Posts	Re: 2015 Rules Mr. (or Mrs.) FS FAN, Be careful what we wish for? You are right. I should continue to show up at the track and get my doors blown off week in and week out by a new car. Yep, good idea. Let the new cars win and guys with an old car, go be a duck a smile. Hey, 1 out of a 100 times an old car will win, look at this one race at indy! Thank you NHRA! I really don't care if I can no longer qualify at Indy, at least I can race again.