Entry Level SS(MOD) rules proposed

[joespanova]

Oh yeah , now I remember the Cobalt.

[Dick Butler]

So the suggested basic clutch is? and basic auto trans should be ? to be about equal?( and not excessively expensive)

[randy wilson]

I still like the 10.5" min single disc. Auto guys need to chime in. That is a legitimate clutch. Why does NHRA still give autos a 5 percent wt break? Just asking. I still think a manual will run with an auto under these circumstances.

[Dick Butler]

One more question: Suppose you blew your $25,000 motor (or more) and still wanted to continue racing, or just had your uncles old Mod car or have a son who you would like to help get into Drag Racing. Would you consider this EconoMod or SS car a better way to get back into racing? or would you put all your cash into regular class car?

[Geerhead55]

Originally Posted by randy wilson

I ain't in bed with Brodix. I'm for ANY suggestions of a limited cylinder head. Show me another company that builds heads for the big three with same flow numbers for each casting, and spec cast into the intake and exhaust port, and I'm all for it. I think it would be great to have all 5 casting companys present a legal head. Does that answer your question?

Well,,, it answers one of them. Just to be fair,,, I did go on the Brodix website and looked up the spec heads you suggested,, heres what I found:
SPCH (Chevy): 2.08 int - 1.60 ex. 215cc runner - 23 degrees
SPFO (Ford): 2.08 int - 1.60 ex. 195cc runner - 20 degrees
SPMO (Mopar):2.08 int - 1.60 ex. 192cc runner - 18 degrees
Now, I may not be the brightest light in the harbor,, but other than the stated valve sizes,, these heads don't look alike to me,, when runner volumes vary from 192 to 215 cc,, a difference of 23, and valve angles have a difference of five degrees, from 18 to 23.
I did see that AFR offers a 195cc SBC head that's closer to the other two in runner size, and I know there are manufacturers that offer 18 degree heads for SBCs,, and that the Mopars seem to have the smallest offerings from the various head makers.
I don't know what your solution will be, but perhaps you'll have to agree on a runner volume, a valve angle and valve sizes and let the racers do their thing. Knowing the rules is their responsibility, and they should know that this could be policed at any given event,, so racer beware. Just a thought, since the "spec" heads appear to be so different. I would love to see this class take off,, don't get me wrong, good luck with it.
Danny Durham

[randy wilson]

Look up the flow numbers, and get back to me. The light may then go off. The reason for the CC's of those heads are to make a stock valve angle flow with other stock valve angles. An 18 degree, and a 20 degree valve angle already has a leg up. I'm all for them designing an 18 degree straight across the board that flows the same. Problem is, they don't. I think some slam this idea because it is a threat to the norm. I never comment on classes that don't concern me, unless to give an opinion on such, but could care less if said class exists. I find it very odd that people running classes that this will have zero negative effect on their class, or this class, or any class even opine.

[69Cobra]

I also agree with Sean on the whole clutch manual trans rules. You have no real rules for the auto guys but you want the stick guys to add weight and no this and no that. Why don't you just say NO STICKS allowed and be done with it! Or make the auto guys run a junk yard stock auto with a 10.5" convertor with a 1800rpm max stall?

As far as no counterweights go there are ways around that as well as the no data logger. You know that doesn't mean you can't go testing with a data logger. Get the clutch dialed in then pull the logger out for the actual race.

In the end big money will prevail in the class and kill it! If what you want is a real budget minded entry level class look at the NMRA's Coyote Stock class. They buy their engines sealed from Ford with a factory tune. You can't pull any part of the engine apart or it breaks the seal and you have to buy another engine. Something like this will be the only way you will have a true entry level budget class that will live. Let the Ford guys use the already stock 5.0 crate motor for their cars and get GM and Mopar on board to supply a comparative deal with all sealed motors then turn them loose!

[randy wilson]

I'm personally not afraid of an auto against a clutch assisted single disc 5 speed. Maybe I would be later, but I don't see that they have an advantage. Also, take away their wt. break. As far as the computer, ya, that will happen with autos and sticks, but raceday is a different animal. With a single 10.5 or bigger single disc with no counter wts. with base only it's way less expensive, and not as advantageous. Again, people who have other options and ideas are making the class just as expensive as Comp. If you allow Comp rules, why even go down this road. The heads alone are only part of the cost saving this class would allow. you have to have other areas to shave expenses. And on stick cars, That's all I would enter, so I doubt I'm trying to put them behind the 8 ball. Not long ago everyone ran a single disc and clutched every gear. In SS\CS we ran as late as the year before KC closed, with that combo, and phase 2 heads, and ran 9.76 142 and change. The crate thing will never work in my opinion, because all heads up racers want some areas to explore.

[james schaechter]

Randy, I know you are a stick guy. If you are going to limit the clutch and trans this much, you should limit the auto guys to a ten inch b&m holeshot converter.

Why not keep it simple and cheap. Just say single disc no billet clutch. Disc size and counterweight allow people to tune and prevent breakage for no money. It is the billet stuff that can get pricey. As far as weight breaks, allow clutch less or no weight break. Let the auto guys do whatever they want then.

We ran modified in the 90's and we would have had a lot more fun and less cost running a smaller disc clutch with less base and more counterweight. I would not see going back as a cost savings even if you had to buy new stuff.

Originally Posted by randy wilson

I'm personally not afraid of an auto against a clutch assisted single disc 5 speed. Maybe I would be later, but I don't see that they have an advantage. Also, take away their wt. break. As far as the computer, ya, that will happen with autos and sticks, but raceday is a different animal. With a single 10.5 or bigger single disc with no counter wts. with base only it's way less expensive, and not as advantageous. Again, people who have other options and ideas are making the class just as expensive as Comp. If you allow Comp rules, why even go down this road. The heads alone are only part of the cost saving this class would allow. you have to have other areas to shave expenses. And on stick cars, That's all I would enter, so I doubt I'm trying to put them behind the 8 ball. Not long ago everyone ran a single disc and clutched every gear. In SS\CS we ran as late as the year before KC closed, with that combo, and phase 2 heads, and ran 9.76 142 and change. The crate thing will never work in my opinion, because all heads up racers want some areas to explore.

[randy wilson]

James, you make some very good points. I'm not denying what you say is true. That being said, the reason I was going with true clutch assisted is because of all the fans of drag racing that I have talked to about this, is the one thing they miss the most other then dry hops, are the guys having to clutch and shift. They say clutchless cars and autos are boring. Just trying to make it more of a drivers race. And one more thing I'm interested to know, and and not being smart, I truly want to know. Why do so many SS and Comp guys have 6 or 7 different $4,000 dollar clutch setups if they are all good? I'm saying you take that part of the equation out. I've tried virtually every single disc, clutch assisted setups they made, and never found much over .03 in all of them. That can't be said for the other setups. Found more in the fly wheel wt. then different clutch models.