Another HP Factor for 67-69 Camaro's?

cbohannon · 01-07-2015, 08:59 PM

Could someone tell me why it appears that there is now another change in HP for these cars, and is this actually the way it is?

67 295/317
68 295/313
69 295/313 (flat hood?)
69 295 /315 (cowl hood?)

As a guy with a 67 Camaro...I have to ask why? Is it so hard to see that these are all the same car.

If these cars are not considered to be the same, then why are later model Camaro's and Firebird's factored the same in stock and superstock?

Mike Pearson · 01-07-2015, 10:00 PM

Rob Carpenter ran fast in the Gaffney's 67 last year at the gators. I don't think there is any fast 68 cars right now

farmco r/sa · 01-07-2015, 10:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike Pearson

Rob Carpenter ran fast in the Gaffney's 67 last year at the gators. I don't think there is any fast 68 cars right now

that's kinda sad no fast 68 cars these days.
assume it is because has been factored so hard
no longer attracive combo... love 68 camaros.....

Mike Pearson · 01-08-2015, 07:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by farmco r/sa

that's kinda sad no fast 68 cars these days.
assume it is because has been factored so hard
no longer attracive combo... love 68 camaros.....

There are still some 68 Camaros running in super stock. Mine being one of them. The combo with the 295/350 took a few HP hits in the recent years and now due to competitor requests we have gotten some of that back. The 67 car is a bit lighter and that makes that year a bit more attractive as a stock or super stock car. I don't think there is enough advantage between the 67 and 68 to warrant the HP difference though. NHRA will probably correct this next time the HP is reviewed.

cbohannon · 01-08-2015, 09:21 PM

I just can't understand how they can factor these three cars differently...they are the exact same car with a few subtle cosmetic changes. They should all be factored the same regardless of what it is.
I can remember when the AHFS came out and I thought it was going to be the greatest thing ever...we were at Alex's US Class Nat's and Kevin Helms told me it was going to be horrible. At the time he was driving Phil Cocuzza's old vette and we were both running SS/CA. I argued that it would level the playing field eventually and make everything better for all of us...going on 15 years later I can say that I was WRONG and Kevin was right.

The AFHS sucks and I wish it would have never came to be...good tech guys and common sense was better than this mess.

Ed Wright · 01-08-2015, 11:05 PM

I agree about AHFS. Too many guys have found too many ways to manipulate it. It's a game.

Alan Roehrich · 01-09-2015, 12:58 AM

The AHFS does not work for several reasons.

1. Very little is done to truly reward performance.

If they were to pay points and money for qualifying. records, and class wins, it would solve that problem easily. So long as they do not reward performance, the AHFS is not going to work. Ever. And nothing else will, either.

2. Runs are not corrected to a standard. If they'd choose a "standard day", the same way the SAE sets a standard for dyno conditions, and correct all run data to that standard, they'd have good data. It's not like it is difficult or expensive, either.

3. More than a few combinations start out so far from being correctly factored that it takes forever to get them close enough to level the playing field, and as a result most people that may have to race against those combinations are forced to sandbag to protect their combination.

4. There is no required inspection of cars that trigger a review or an instant hit. So long as they're not light, and they pass fuel check, the runs count.

The list could go on,but that's enough for now. If anyone at NHRA actually cared if it worked, it might be different. What they should do is have an entirely separate tech department for the sportsman classes that doesn't answer to anyone with regard to the AHFS, factors, and the rules that affect performance. Have that department run by Len Imbrogno, Wesley Roberson, Travis Miller, Dave Ley, and Bill "Red Man" Floyd. If no one could over rule Len and Wesley, most of our problems would be solved practically overnight.

Ed Wright · 01-09-2015, 08:35 AM

^^^^^^* Absolutely correct!!!!

How much would it cost them to award points for records, like they used to, and for qualifying? Not one frigging dime.
Tech guys would likely prefer to not have to tear down more cars for setting records.

01-07-2015, 08:59 PM	#1
cbohannon Junior Member Join Date: May 2011 Posts: 27 Likes: 0 Liked 13 Times in 4 Posts	Another HP Factor for 67-69 Camaro's? Could someone tell me why it appears that there is now another change in HP for these cars, and is this actually the way it is? 67 295/317 68 295/313 69 295/313 (flat hood?) 69 295 /315 (cowl hood?) As a guy with a 67 Camaro...I have to ask why? Is it so hard to see that these are all the same car. If these cars are not considered to be the same, then why are later model Camaro's and Firebird's factored the same in stock and superstock?

01-07-2015, 10:00 PM	#2
Mike Pearson VIP Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 2,437 Likes: 611 Liked 1,904 Times in 571 Posts	Re: Another HP Factor for 67-69 Camaro's? Rob Carpenter ran fast in the Gaffney's 67 last year at the gators. I don't think there is any fast 68 cars right now __________________ Mike Pearson 2485 SS

01-08-2015, 09:21 PM	#5
cbohannon Junior Member Join Date: May 2011 Posts: 27 Likes: 0 Liked 13 Times in 4 Posts	Re: Another HP Factor for 67-69 Camaro's? I just can't understand how they can factor these three cars differently...they are the exact same car with a few subtle cosmetic changes. They should all be factored the same regardless of what it is. I can remember when the AHFS came out and I thought it was going to be the greatest thing ever...we were at Alex's US Class Nat's and Kevin Helms told me it was going to be horrible. At the time he was driving Phil Cocuzza's old vette and we were both running SS/CA. I argued that it would level the playing field eventually and make everything better for all of us...going on 15 years later I can say that I was WRONG and Kevin was right. The AFHS sucks and I wish it would have never came to be...good tech guys and common sense was better than this mess.

01-08-2015, 11:05 PM	#6
Ed Wright Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Sand Springs, OK Posts: 8,132 Likes: 896 Liked 390 Times in 170 Posts	Re: Another HP Factor for 67-69 Camaro's? I agree about AHFS. Too many guys have found too many ways to manipulate it. It's a game. __________________ Ed Wright 4156 SS/JA

01-09-2015, 12:58 AM	#7
Alan Roehrich Veteran Member Join Date: May 2006 Location: Murfreesboro TN Posts: 5,095 Likes: 1,541 Liked 1,770 Times in 402 Posts	Re: Another HP Factor for 67-69 Camaro's? The AHFS does not work for several reasons. 1. Very little is done to truly reward performance. If they were to pay points and money for qualifying. records, and class wins, it would solve that problem easily. So long as they do not reward performance, the AHFS is not going to work. Ever. And nothing else will, either. 2. Runs are not corrected to a standard. If they'd choose a "standard day", the same way the SAE sets a standard for dyno conditions, and correct all run data to that standard, they'd have good data. It's not like it is difficult or expensive, either. 3. More than a few combinations start out so far from being correctly factored that it takes forever to get them close enough to level the playing field, and as a result most people that may have to race against those combinations are forced to sandbag to protect their combination. 4. There is no required inspection of cars that trigger a review or an instant hit. So long as they're not light, and they pass fuel check, the runs count. The list could go on,but that's enough for now. If anyone at NHRA actually cared if it worked, it might be different. What they should do is have an entirely separate tech department for the sportsman classes that doesn't answer to anyone with regard to the AHFS, factors, and the rules that affect performance. Have that department run by Len Imbrogno, Wesley Roberson, Travis Miller, Dave Ley, and Bill "Red Man" Floyd. If no one could over rule Len and Wesley, most of our problems would be solved practically overnight. __________________ Alan Roehrich 212A G/S

01-09-2015, 08:35 AM	#8
Ed Wright Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Sand Springs, OK Posts: 8,132 Likes: 896 Liked 390 Times in 170 Posts	Re: Another HP Factor for 67-69 Camaro's? ^^^^^^* Absolutely correct!!!! How much would it cost them to award points for records, like they used to, and for qualifying? Not one frigging dime. Tech guys would likely prefer to not have to tear down more cars for setting records. __________________ Ed Wright 4156 SS/JA Last edited by Ed Wright; 01-09-2015 at 08:38 AM.