SS Modified

[Dick Butler]

"Everyone should be able to win at heads up racing regardless how much time and money they spend" Obama.
I think that's is how you stated it. Funny comment and but ...
You have missed the fact that in eliminator when you take out your shoe polish to put your dial in on the window you are getting your Obama handicap help.
You are no longer truly racing someone, you are playing the clock with shoe polish dial in as an equalizer. It was intended to allow various classes to compete together since the variations in cars and classes became massive by expansion of number of classes.
The other facts about winning class regardless how much you work or spend is incorrect because you imply a $10,000 car is proposed to run in a class with the guys who have invested $150,000 in a factory car.
No that wasn't intended in any of my posts. An economy class of cars to attract more new racers or as a place for everyone to race who honestly cannot invest $35,000 in a motor or high buck trans .
Also might reread the posts on Dime Rockets where guys brag about being #1 Qualifier with a ________( name the unfactored rule book oversight). Pick up, Turbo van, etc.
Lots of fun in this topic but hoping to keep the thoughts clearly separated for what was proposed versus how people interpret the ideas.

[Dick Butler]

Facts about savings for a class of Econo Mod with proposed rules.
(also fastest growing class in round track with these rules)
Spec unmod Al Brodix heads and cast manifold savings-----------$15,000

Clutch rule, no computer, no pan evac system savings-------------$7,000

Stock Diameter cam and lifter rule savings-------------------------------$1000

9" Deck block rule, No titanium drive line parts-savings -------------??????

The rules used can be re posted Stick car rules save $23-25,000.
Tech with scope in pan or heads.

Just wanted to add these amounts to suggest the value of changing one Mod class rule set or adding to save costs.

[SSDiv6]

Originally Posted by Dick Butler

Facts about savings for a class of Econo Mod with proposed rules.
(also fastest growing class in round track with these rules)
Spec unmod Al Brodix heads and cast manifold savings-----------$15,000

Clutch rule, no computer, no pan evac system savings-------------$7,000

Stock Diameter cam and lifter rule savings-------------------------------$1000

9" Deck block rule, No titanium drive line parts-savings -------------??????

The rules used can be re posted Stick car rules save $23-25,000.
Tech with scope in pan or heads.

Just wanted to add these amounts to suggest the value of changing one Mod class rule set or adding to save costs.

So Dick, since you are limiting the class to a 9" deck, why not call it Chevy/GM Econo Mod class?
A Mopar small block has a 9.6" deck height and Ford has 3 deck heights: 8.2, 9.2 and 9.5.
By the way, Titanium is already prohibited in the Modified classes.
So, you have to pull the timing cover to check the cam diameter?

Like I someone said earlier, local tracks can run such type of class, at national event level, it will not happen. It would require a teardown at every event.

[randy wilson]

As far as I know, titanium lug nuts, yokes, and wheel studs are legal in modified. Correct me if I'm wrong. And the tear down is very simple in my opinion. Any 4150 carb. (No tear down) any stroke, (no tear down) cast intake with no external miss, (no tear down) any combustion chamber mod, (no tear down) angle mill all you want, (no tear down) intake and exhaust ports can't be altered,(no tear down, just a bore scope) if questionable, tear down. Min 10.5" clutch, no counter weights, one disc, no tear down.

[Ed Carpenter]

A spec motor class will never happen in NHRA. You have a better chance of turning Obuma into a Republican first........

[buzzinhalfdozen]

Gonna have to splain to me how you save $7000 in the clutch rule by not allowing data loggers or pan evac systems. Pan evac= less than $100 entry level datalogger can be had for $600 since everyone already owns a laptop that's a wash on cost. I'm aware of at least one "econo" circle track series in my area, believe me when you limit one thing many dollars get spent on something else to enhance performance. Bottom line any "limited" class series will quickly spiral out of control merely because there WILL be someone that is willing to spend what ever it takes to be the fastest. It's been proven over and over. Oh and since the stick cars are limited...I'll assume there will be a "spec" torque converter and everyone runs a bone stock power glide right?

[randy wilson]

Originally Posted by buzzinhalfdozen

Gonna have to splain to me how you save $7000 in the clutch rule by not allowing data loggers or pan evac systems. Pan evac= less than $100 entry level datalogger can be had for $600 since everyone already owns a laptop that's a wash on cost. I'm aware of at least one "econo" circle track series in my area, believe me when you limit one thing many dollars get spent on something else to enhance performance. Bottom line any "limited" class series will quickly spiral out of control merely because there WILL be someone that is willing to spend what ever it takes to be the fastest. It's been proven over and over. Oh and since the stick cars are limited...I'll assume there will be a "spec" torque converter and everyone runs a bone stock power glide right?

Every class in SS is a spec class. Just different specs. You're not allowed a dry sump in SS, but other classes you are. It ain't rocket science. They could curb the spending but choose not to. A true Comp type titanium clutch assembly is around $7,000 more or less. Depending on all the bells, and whistles. No need for it if you limit it to one single disc clutch, and a minimum diameter. No need for the titanium bell housing. Pan evac would be legal. Vac pumps, not. I'm saying the high end pump setups are rather expensive. Don't worry. None of this will ever happen, but I go back to my original point. Why would anyone care, especially when it involves no one else's class? Mind boggling!

[Dick Butler]

I guess I will end my comments on this post with a couple of questions.
Why do people complain about the high cost of a motor and not want to evaluate a way to curb the costs?
Why do people complain about the soft factors of this motor or that factory car and not want to consider the lb. / cubic inch methods more?
Why do people express concerns about NO crowd in the stands for points meets when S and SS are the major competitors and not admit the dial in program might be the issue?
Why do racers who competed in TOP/STK and TOP/SS explain it was the most fun they had in years racing heads up instead of dial in?
Why do racers comment on the fact the majority of the current racers are at retirement age and attracting new blood seems difficult but not want to help create an entry level full size car or class to attract more people?
Even more interesting is why people want to comment negatively when it would not affect the car they currently run but might offer a cheaper alternative later?
The basic question many have is why does Dick Butler who does not currently race care?
Friends Drag Racing is a wonderful sport and I always want to offer thoughts which might bring it back to where it has been in popularity and can return for the future at the Sportsman racer level.
Thank you.....for participating in the thinking and discussion.

[buzzinhalfdozen]

Originally Posted by randy wilson

Every class in SS is a spec class. Just different specs. You're not allowed a dry sump in SS, but other classes you are. It ain't rocket science. They could curb the spending but choose not to. A true Comp type titanium clutch assembly is around $7,000 more or less. Depending on all the bells, and whistles. No need for it if you limit it to one single disc clutch, and a minimum diameter. No need for the titanium bell housing. Pan evac would be legal. Vac pumps, not. I'm saying the high end pump setups are rather expensive. Don't worry. None of this will ever happen, but I go back to my original point. Why would anyone care, especially when it involves no one else's class? Mind boggling!

Actually you can run a dry sump in SS of course it's not allowed in most but the X cars can. And again are any of the SS guys running the 7000 dollar clutches now? None that I know of, don;t think titanium cans are allowed now in SS, vac pumps are not allowed now in conventional SS....so I'm still not seeing the savings. And for Dicks response...I've never complained about the cost of a motor, you build what you can afford...if the fast guys are spending 35-50K on an engine then you either pay up, work the ladder, or change classes. There will always be someone who thinks "His index is too soft" "costs are out of control" "engines are too expensive" "this guy can out spend me" on and on it goes. Look around...some folks are pulling in with 500,000-600,000 dollar RIGS! Do you honestly think they can't pay their way into being fast? However does that mean that they WILL win...last I checked you can pull in with a pickup and open trailer and wear them out.