Some Englishtown observations.

[John Bender]

Billy, I absolutely agree with everything you said, and you said it well. As far as the track goes. I was there the day it opened, took 4 years off to be with Uncle Sam, two of which was spent in South East Asia, came home and raced at ETown almost every weekend, in Stock and in brackets for twenty years. Took some time off from racing and came to Stock Eliminator. I now try to avoid racing at ETown because of the poor track condition and the condition of the pits. I race all of division one tracks and have seen more flat tires on Racecars at ETown than any place else. The right lane was horrible at the summer nats. and the left lane was horrible this weekend. Maybe Englishtown Raceway Park should shut down this year at the end of October when the weather is still kind of good and compleatly rebuild the bottom half of the track surface from the burnout boxes to the 1/8 mile.

As for yesterday, 9/11, I thought the invocation was excellent, and being a retired career firefighter who spent some time in New York, it did bring a tear to my eye.

[BKSG1198]

Another observation that was pointed out to me over the weekend was of course the lack of spectators. Now I only went on Saturday to watch due to a new job and having to watch my days off so I couldn't race. I was lucky enough that the gentlemen in front of me had an extra "$25.00 Free Carload Pass" that he accidentally picked up two at PC Richards and decided to share that with me and I got in for free thanks to Gary Richards & that Gentlemen. Now I know it was advertised by Jack on CR that this was the deal at E-Town but, not a mention on the E-town website or D-1 website about these tickets being available to the public. The biggest thing on the E-town webpage is about the Diesel Truck Nationals this weekend on Saturday. Nothing about tickets being available to the public and this person who came to talk to me this weekend made mention that there is a billboard that he always passes on the way to E-Town and when he passed it on Thursday, nothing about the "50th Anniversary LODRS" but, about the Diesel Truck Event the following weekend. I don't know what the trade off is with Gary & E-Town but, the 20 other people that sat in the stands with me to watch 1st round was pretty sad and I'd say 10 of them were racers families waiting for their team guy to race.

Now listen I know nobody wants to come see us race and their was probably more people at the drift track that night then at the drag strip but, man put a little effort into the event. I know the LODRS events at E-Town don't have Alky cars anymore but, book something to put on a show to bring people in the gates. You have some fast T/S & T/D Cars that run the times that old Pro Mods used too and E-Town was the place for Pro Mods back in the 80's & 90's. I know the curfew is a big headache for E-town thanks to the wonderful neighbors and township but, I've noticed this around most of the D-1 races I went to this year that the stands were 1/4 full. You have a sponsor who loves drag racing, races cars himself and does a ton for the racers in PC Richards and we need to capitalize on that before he says no more. Rather it be car shows the week before the LODRS at the local PC Richards stores with some cars that will be racing there or at a local restaurant (Sonic, Applebee's, Outback) . This way people can see some of the cars that are going to be there and maybe draw some interest into coming out. Utilizing the Social Media more and promoting it more and making it affordable for a family to come out. I packed my own lunch on Saturday cause I wasn't going to spend $20.00 for a Hamburger & Soda. I hate to say it but, you need to bend a little to bring in more people and not gouge their eyes out.

I know some people don't care if Don Garlits is sitting in the stands to watch us race but, to come out to empty stands makes it sound like we are just an eye sore and we are just on the schedule cause the event has been there for 50 years now.

I don't normally post about other things but, you want to listen to something great, go listen to Wes Buck of Drag Illustrated on Wednesdays at 2pm (CST) which is 3pm our time on Facebook and listen to what he has to say. He has a movement going called "Make Drag Racing Great Again" and has some awesome ideas. There is a reason that Jim Halsey can fill Cecil County for Yellow Bullet. The price to get in was reasonable and the concession stand was 30 deep with the prices being the same as they were on a regular bracket day because they didn't kill the prices because they knew it was a big crowd. Yes, it's a complete different type of racing but, you can't say Drag Racing is on the death bed we just have to start looking outside the box and thinking of new ideas or we'll all be sitting here in 15 years going "Boy that used to be fun".

[Pistol Pete]

Originally Posted by BKSG1198

Another observation that was pointed out to me over the weekend was of course the lack of spectators. Now I only went on Saturday to watch due to a new job and having to watch my days off so I couldn't race. I was lucky enough that the gentlemen in front of me had an extra "$25.00 Free Carload Pass" that he accidentally picked up two at PC Richards and decided to share that with me and I got in for free thanks to Gary Richards & that Gentlemen. Now I know it was advertised by Jack on CR that this was the deal at E-Town but, not a mention on the E-town website or D-1 website about these tickets being available to the public. The biggest thing on the E-town webpage is about the Diesel Truck Nationals this weekend on Saturday. Nothing about tickets being available to the public and this person who came to talk to me this weekend made mention that there is a billboard that he always passes on the way to E-Town and when he passed it on Thursday, nothing about the "50th Anniversary LODRS" but, about the Diesel Truck Event the following weekend. I don't know what the trade off is with Gary & E-Town but, the 20 other people that sat in the stands with me to watch 1st round was pretty sad and I'd say 10 of them were racers families waiting for their team guy to race.

Now listen I know nobody wants to come see us race and their was probably more people at the drift track that night then at the drag strip but, man put a little effort into the event. I know the LODRS events at E-Town don't have Alky cars anymore but, book something to put on a show to bring people in the gates. You have some fast T/S & T/D Cars that run the times that old Pro Mods used too and E-Town was the place for Pro Mods back in the 80's & 90's. I know the curfew is a big headache for E-town thanks to the wonderful neighbors and township but, I've noticed this around most of the D-1 races I went to this year that the stands were 1/4 full. You have a sponsor who loves drag racing, races cars himself and does a ton for the racers in PC Richards and we need to capitalize on that before he says no more. Rather it be car shows the week before the LODRS at the local PC Richards stores with some cars that will be racing there or at a local restaurant (Sonic, Applebee's, Outback) . This way people can see some of the cars that are going to be there and maybe draw some interest into coming out. Utilizing the Social Media more and promoting it more and making it affordable for a family to come out. I packed my own lunch on Saturday cause I wasn't going to spend $20.00 for a Hamburger & Soda. I hate to say it but, you need to bend a little to bring in more people and not gouge their eyes out.

I know some people don't care if Don Garlits is sitting in the stands to watch us race but, to come out to empty stands makes it sound like we are just an eye sore and we are just on the schedule cause the event has been there for 50 years now.

I don't normally post about other things but, you want to listen to something great, go listen to Wes Buck of Drag Illustrated on Wednesdays at 2pm (CST) which is 3pm our time on Facebook and listen to what he has to say. He has a movement going called "Make Drag Racing Great Again" and has some awesome ideas. There is a reason that Jim Halsey can fill Cecil County for Yellow Bullet. The price to get in was reasonable and the concession stand was 30 deep with the prices being the same as they were on a regular bracket day because they didn't kill the prices because they knew it was a big crowd. Yes, it's a complete different type of racing but, you can't say Drag Racing is on the death bed we just have to start looking outside the box and thinking of new ideas or we'll all be sitting here in 15 years going "Boy that used to be fun".

I'd say pretty much of what you said is 100% correct about: Not advertising the race for one. Especially when P.C. Richard's is giving the tickets out for Free.
But,You have to take into consideration of the HEAT factor we had the pleasure of on Saturday. I wouldn't blame people for not coming that day, the beach or a place with A.C. on is going to entice them rather than a Hot n Steamy Race Track.

I'll bet if you had the "Street Outlaw" guys racing there (i hate to say it) the place would've seen more spectators.

I don't have the answers on how to bring in more people to watch but i did have 2 guys
come to the track with me for the first time & they were watching the Super Classes without me, they came back & said " Why Do They Get Off The Gas Then Go Again".
I tried to explain it, but i think the average person watching without knowing about Super Classes or even Stock & SS in which you can't go under, how will people know how to follow that. People usually would figure, First one to the Stripe Wins. Not the case in our classes. Now, go ahead & try and explain Comp. Elim. to people, they'd have a headache after your done explaining it.

[Ed Fernandez]

Some observations from an old retired poop (retired from work and Stock). I did my service many moons ago (1963-65) and was really touched by the pre race invocation ( wished they would have included Lee Greenwood's song) As far as Saturday I was there from 10:30 AM till 9:00 Pm when the last pair went down. I made sure to eat lunch and dinner and drink water during the day (thanks to my friends for the bottles of water I was offered all day). If I could make it through the day It's no excuse for many others to have been there. The Stock 1st round was fantastic. I was at the finish line under the old tower and have never seen so many runs with cars less than a car length at the stripe. The place could use a bit of a sprucing up, but it's still a great facility. It was a kick to see my old race friends again. As far as the old man from the mountain goes he had the car for the occasion against David. Sometimes the little guy is given a little bit of help against the
big guns. Not that Billy needs help (racing that is). Both four remaining racers did a great job getting through a tough weekend weather wise.
I'm going to lay down and take a nappy.

[1320racer]

while stock eliminator may be alive and well, it's a geriatric class along with the rest of the classes and THAT is why the NHRA, drag racing, class racing, bracket racing is dying, because WE, the old guys are dying.

[goinbroke2]

I guess everything is relative, some continue to say it's dying, but I see local tracks growing. I see our local S/SS count growing yearly (thanks to a local diehard that is doing everything to promote it, thanks Jeff) If they cancelled all national events, the local events would still operate and people who want to drag race would still either find a place to race or build a place to race (as in CB)
Explaining S/SS or bracket racing...lol, I "explained" it to my kids and their friends years ago when I set up a 100ft strip and ran them heads up,(edit: on bicycles) when the bigger kid won, I spotted the little kid more and more until they were evened out. THEY understood it and I'm talking 8-12 year olds.

So, the sky is not falling (again or still) dragracing will continue on in one form or another, sounds like e-town does need an upgrading, nothing will change as far as butts in the stands unless there is more promotion done.

Sorry to highjack Billy, just seems your original message is being turned into doom and gloom.

[BKSG1198]

Originally Posted by Pistol Pete

I'd say pretty much of what you said is 100% correct about: Not advertising the race for one. Especially when P.C. Richard's is giving the tickets out for Free.
But,You have to take into consideration of the HEAT factor we had the pleasure of on Saturday. I wouldn't blame people for not coming that day, the beach or a place with A.C. on is going to entice them rather than a Hot n Steamy Race Track.

I'll bet if you had the "Street Outlaw" guys racing there (i hate to say it) the place would've seen more spectators.

I don't have the answers on how to bring in more people to watch but i did have 2 guys
come to the track with me for the first time & they were watching the Super Classes without me, they came back & said " Why Do They Get Off The Gas Then Go Again".
I tried to explain it, but i think the average person watching without knowing about Super Classes or even Stock & SS in which you can't go under, how will people know how to follow that. People usually would figure, First one to the Stripe Wins. Not the case in our classes. Now, go ahead & try and explain Comp. Elim. to people, they'd have a headache after your done explaining it.

Yes, Pete the heat was a huge factor for some people not coming out because for most people spending a day the beach or by the pool is better then being at the asphalt beach that we race at. Now don't get me wrong but, Dave & his crew do a great job at running an event and I'm not knocking them at all. They have been pretty short staffed this year but, still find ways around getting all the cars teched and down the track in a safe environment one way or another. It's just you have a younger group that have marketing degrees and run business or work in that field (Myself, Brittany Boltz, Etc) that can help out in anyway possible to make this sport better. I don't want anything in return for giving my ideas as to how to get butts in the seats but, we need to do something. The racers are there and that's not a problem - 500+ at MG, 500 at E-town, 480+ at Atco.

Yes, .90 racing is confusing to anyone who has never seen it in person but, as I've said it before the Top end is the place to watch .90 racing. I watched 1st round of Super Gas from the bar tower they have at the finish line at E-town. Want to talk about races separated by inches and a flat out chess match going on, that's the place to go. Unfortunately, we as racers let .90 racing get out of hand with speed and technology that it's boring for the average fan or other racers because we've become a society that if you can't explain it in less then 5 minutes or find it on Google it's too confusing to people and they give up. Like I tell people who come over to look at our car and ask about T/S Racing and I explain it all the way down to the last nut & bolt and they half way understand it but, those people are few and far between.

[Bobby Fazio]

Originally Posted by BKSG1198

Yes, Pete the heat was a huge factor for some people not coming out because for most people spending a day the beach or by the pool is better then being at the asphalt beach that we race at. Now don't get me wrong but, Dave & his crew do a great job at running an event and I'm not knocking them at all. They have been pretty short staffed this year but, still find ways around getting all the cars teched and down the track in a safe environment one way or another. It's just you have a younger group that have marketing degrees and run business or work in that field (Myself, Brittany Boltz, Etc) that can help out in anyway possible to make this sport better. I don't want anything in return for giving my ideas as to how to get butts in the seats but, we need to do something. The racers are there and that's not a problem - 500+ at MG, 500 at E-town, 480+ at Atco.

Yes, .90 racing is confusing to anyone who has never seen it in person but, as I've said it before the Top end is the place to watch .90 racing. I watched 1st round of Super Gas from the bar tower they have at the finish line at E-town. Want to talk about races separated by inches and a flat out chess match going on, that's the place to go. Unfortunately, we as racers let .90 racing get out of hand with speed and technology that it's boring for the average fan or other racers because we've become a society that if you can't explain it in less then 5 minutes or find it on Google it's too confusing to people and they give up. Like I tell people who come over to look at our car and ask about T/S Racing and I explain it all the way down to the last nut & bolt and they half way understand it but, those people are few and far between.

Now that you mention it, why is that bar tower never open?

[Signman]

Sportsman racing is not dying.

Those participating may be older but there are plenty of young people who would come out if they could afford it. The economy sucks for producing expendable income. Racing is expensive most cannot afford it until they are financially established in their 30s-40s.

As an example of young people interest we have a teenager who got interested in the new factory cars, got on the COPO list and is out racing with us. His dad raced a little when he was young but never really spoke of it his son did it on his own. Of course dad bought the car but this is something they are learning and doing together. You think his buddies are not watching him thinking how cool his car is and dreaming? I watched drag racing on TV as a 10 or 11 year old and grew up watching muscle cars drive by, always loved drag racing but did not get involved until my mid 30s after doing other things, built my first car and started driving in early 40s.

As expensive as Stock is we are always the largest car count in Div. 1 and nationally Stock has the most NHRA licensed drivers.
There is a problem with Super Gas, but Super Comp is well attended with dragsters being attractive to young people and the best bang for your buck in sportsman and bracket racing. The type of racing we do is not generally spectator friendly in it requires the acquisition of some basic knowledge of rules for each eliminator rules. BUT track operators and NHRA lack of interest in finding a way to market these events have conceded racers are their only customer demographic.

Raceway park is my favorite track but management has issues mostly driven by money or lack of. The track used to be the best in the region and maybe the country but that requires maintenance and grooming all week every week during the season not just on race days. They have some dedicated people but it costs money in labor equipment and materials. One issue is materials: The traction compound sprayed on the track has been modified to meet EPA regulations it works in hot but not cool and vice versa, needs to be cut but how much for best traction and stretch the material. Some real engineering needs to be done.
Everyone is getting flats at RP more than any other track. Pavement in the pits is getting old and we are dragging so much gravel up to the burnout box they can probably use what is swept up to fill some pot holes.Swap meet weekends are important to the facility financially brings so much metal shrapnel and broken glass we are getting flats. Most racers will police their pit area but the main roads especially along the lake should be swept before events it would be great if some sort of magnets were dragged around during to week to pick up the metal.

We have the factory cars bringing so much attention to our sport especially Stock, we have so many young drivers buy men and women, even with the weak economy there are new cars and new faces, the sort is not dying it moving with the times.

[goinbroke2]

Originally Posted by Signman

Sportsman racing is not dying.

Those participating may be older but there are plenty of young people who would come out if they could afford it. The economy sucks for producing expendable income. Racing is expensive most cannot afford it until they are financially established in their 30s-40s.

As an example of young people interest we have a teenager who got interested in the new factory cars, got on the COPO list and is out racing with us. His dad raced a little when he was young but never really spoke of it his son did it on his own. Of course dad bought the car but this is something they are learning and doing together. You think his buddies are not watching him thinking how cool his car is and dreaming? I watched drag racing on TV as a 10 or 11 year old and grew up watching muscle cars drive by, always loved drag racing but did not get involved until my mid 30s after doing other things, built my first car and started driving in early 40s.

As expensive as Stock is we are always the largest car count in Div. 1 and nationally Stock has the most NHRA licensed drivers.
There is a problem with Super Gas, but Super Comp is well attended with dragsters being attractive to young people and the best bang for your buck in sportsman and bracket racing. The type of racing we do is not generally spectator friendly in it requires the acquisition of some basic knowledge of rules for each eliminator rules. BUT track operators and NHRA lack of interest in finding a way to market these events have conceded racers are their only customer demographic.

Raceway park is my favorite track but management has issues mostly driven by money or lack of. The track used to be the best in the region and maybe the country but that requires maintenance and grooming all week every week during the season not just on race days. They have some dedicated people but it costs money in labor equipment and materials. One issue is materials: The traction compound sprayed on the track has been modified to meet EPA regulations it works in hot but not cool and vice versa, needs to be cut but how much for best traction and stretch the material. Some real engineering needs to be done.
Everyone is getting flats at RP more than any other track. Pavement in the pits is getting old and we are dragging so much gravel up to the burnout box they can probably use what is swept up to fill some pot holes.Swap meet weekends are important to the facility financially brings so much metal shrapnel and broken glass we are getting flats. Most racers will police their pit area but the main roads especially along the lake should be swept before events it would be great if some sort of magnets were dragged around during to week to pick up the metal.

We have the factory cars bringing so much attention to our sport especially Stock, we have so many young drivers buy men and women, even with the weak economy there are new cars and new faces, the sort is not dying it moving with the times.

X2 Signman, well put. One line though " dragsters being attractive to young people and the best bang for your buck in sportsman and bracket racing." This is a point (perhaps this isn't the forum, but since you brought it up) that my kid brought up to me. He's out of junior dragsters soon and wanted a bigger dragster, I told him they're too expensive and you have to be in Super Pro here which is 11.50 and faster. His next question was thought provoking.."Why, why do you have to go so fast in a dragster, why can't you start out say 12 seconds?" Hundred reasons why but the point was valid, we made juniors for kids to rejuvenate the sport..why not give them (or anybody) the next stepping stone and allow 12 sec dragsters?
Yes I said he can drive my mustang in Stock elim but that's not the point. He grew up in dragsters and wants to continue in dragsters but I don't have the pockets to do it.

Hope he likes a slow, boring, full bodied car to race next....