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Old 01-04-2008, 11:40 AM   #1
Bill Harris
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Default Re: 09 challenger

The start of the retro muscle cars was when Ford introduced the '05 Mustang. How many of them do you see in stock and S/S? They weren't even in the classification guide until last year. One guy built a one for SS/GT and couldn't run in NHRA, only in IHRA, until he put up a fight to get it into the classification guide. It was added in May of '07, almost three years after it was introduced.

I have no idea of how competitive an '05-'07 Mustang would be in stock. The only engine is the 3 valve 4.6L SOHC engine which is factory 300HP. Even though it has never been run, NHRA put an extra 20 HP on it from the get-go so it's factored at 320. It could run D, E or F, but there aren't any out there. Why not? Why have the extra HP added to it before anyone even tries to run one?

It is probably Ford's fault, since it is up to the manufacturer to provide the specs for the classification guide. Ford doesn't seem to support drag racing at the sportsman level at all. They put more money into Harley pro-stock motorcycles (???!!!) than sportsman racing. It sucks, and as a Ford guy it pisses me off.

I'll betcha that within 6 months of the introduction of the new (ugly as sin IMHO) Camaro, there will be dozens of them in class racing. GM supports the sportsman and sees some value in having their cars at the track. That sure isn't going to make me change my colors but it does make me jealous.
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Last edited by Bill Harris; 01-04-2008 at 01:09 PM. Reason: Not DOHC, 3-valve SOHC engine
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Old 01-04-2008, 11:55 AM   #2
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Default Re: 09 challenger

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Harris View Post
The start of the retro muscle cars was when Ford introduced the '05 Mustang. How many of them do you see in stock and S/S? They weren't even in the classification guide until last year. One guy built a one for SS/GT and couldn't run in NHRA, only in IHRA, until he put up a fight to get it into the classification guide. It was added in May of '07, almost three years after it was introduced.

I have no idea of how competitive an '05-'07 Mustang would be in stock. The only engine is the 4.6L DOHC engine which is factory 300HP. Even though it has never been run, NHRA put an extra 20 HP on it from the get-go so it's factored at 320. It could run D, E or F, but there aren't any out there. Why not? Why have the extra HP added to it before anyone even tries to run one?

It is probably Ford's fault, since it is up to the manufacturer to provide the specs for the classification guide. Ford doesn't seem to support drag racing at the sportsman level at all. They put more money into Harley pro-stock motorcycles (???!!!) than sportsman racing. It sucks, and as a Ford guy it pisses me off.

I'll betcha that within 6 months of the introduction of the new (ugly as sin IMHO) Camaro, there will be dozens of them in class racing. GM supports the sportsman and sees some value in having their cars at the track. That sure isn't going to make me change my colors but it does make me jealous.
Will be interesting to see how Evan Smith's new Shelby Mustang performs in SS/A.
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Old 01-04-2008, 12:41 PM   #3
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Question Re: 09 challenger

As far as the new Mustang is concerned in Stock, wouldn't the 4.6 DOHC V-8 be more difficult to deal with in teardown than our current, conventional V-8s?
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Old 01-04-2008, 05:37 PM   #4
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Default Re: 09 challenger

It took me over a year to get Ford to send NHRA the spec's to my 2003 Mustang Cobra and we have been in the Ford business for over 30 years. They told me the only person they care about in NHRA drag racing is John Force and that's where all their attention and $ are going . Ford point blank told me they could care less about the sportsman racers. I'm still waiting on my class win Ford check from 5 years ago. They did do a good thing with giving Evan Smith the Shelby, so maybe they are starting to see THE BIG PICTURE.


To Myron:

I have been messing with the 4.6 DOHC 32v motor in this Cobra and between having 4 chains, 4 cams, 32 valve springs and lifter's and it being wider from valve cover to valve cover than a Boss 429 or a 426 hemi it been a piece of cake YA RIGHT, it's been a hand full.

P.S. I just want to tell ya little story. The first night I ever went bracket racing was on a Sat. night about 1986, in Orlando and who do I get first round was this Mopar guy who dialed slow, caught me at the 1/8 and fender raced me to the finish line and wore me out and I think it was you.


Good luck in 08 guys!!
Bret Velde
3028 A/S 2003 Cobra
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Old 01-04-2008, 10:44 PM   #5
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Default Re: 09 challenger

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Originally Posted by BRETV View Post
It took me over a year to get Ford to send NHRA the spec's to my 2003 Mustang Cobra and we have been in the Ford business for over 30 years. They told me the only person they care about in NHRA drag racing is John Force and that's where all their attention and $ are going . Ford point blank told me they could care less about the sportsman racers. I'm still waiting on my class win Ford check from 5 years ago. They did do a good thing with giving Evan Smith the Shelby, so maybe they are starting to see THE BIG PICTURE.
It is amazing they have such attitude. Just take in to account the amount of ink in magazines and Ford/Mustang racing events that take place all over the country.

Quote:
To Myron:

I have been messing with the 4.6 DOHC 32v motor in this Cobra and between having 4 chains, 4 cams, 32 valve springs and lifter's and it being wider from valve cover to valve cover than a Boss 429 or a 426 hemi it been a piece of cake YA RIGHT, it's been a hand full.

P.S. I just want to tell ya little story. The first night I ever went bracket racing was on a Sat. night about 1986, in Orlando and who do I get first round was this Mopar guy who dialed slow, caught me at the 1/8 and fender raced me to the finish line and wore me out and I think it was you.


Good luck in 08 guys!!
Bret Velde
3028 A/S 2003 Cobra
Just hope that someone does not get ticked-off at you and post money for a teardown just to get you run out of time to put the car together!!!! I would be very upset if I was in your shoes!!!
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Old 01-04-2008, 10:51 PM   #6
bill dedman
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Default Re: 09 challenger

I admit up front that the following is strictly hearsay,so believe it or don't; if anyone can set me straight with the FACTS, please do so; these are the facts as I have heard them:

Ford is not the only manufacturer who cares little for NHRA Sportsman drag racing. I heard about a racer who spent a ton of his own money to build a late-model Corvette for Stock Eliminator and wasn't having much success with the motor, so went to General Motors and asked for some help programming the fuel curve, mainly. He had LOTS of money to spend and needed nothing but information from G.M.... nothing that would cost them a significant amount of time or factory money.


Their response to him was, basically, "Shoooo... We have ZERO interest in how your car runs, and in fact will do nothing to help you achieve success on the drag strip, because that is not the image we want for our cars." He ended up selling the car.

Insofar as adding horsepower before anyone has run a car with that engine down the track, as Bill Harris has pointed out, didn't NHRA do exactly the same thing to the NASCAR (single 4bbl) Hemi, a couple of years ago? I heard that someone who was, in fact, building a car for that motor stopped the project, cold, when they heard that NHRA had done that.

Where's the logic in that??? How can they (NHRA) know the factor is wrong before they've even seen one run?
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Old 01-04-2008, 11:03 PM   #7
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Default Re: 09 challenger

Quote:
Originally Posted by bill dedman View Post
I admit up front that the following is strictly hearsay,so believe it or don't; if anyone can set me straight with the FACTS, please do so; these are the facts as I have heard them:

Ford is not the only manufacturer who cares little for NHRA Sportsman drag racing. I heard about a racer who spent a ton of his own money to build a late-model Corvette for Stock Eliminator and wasn't having much success with the motor, so went to General Motors and asked for some help programming the fuel curve, mainly. He had LOTS of money to spend and needed nothing but information from G.M.... nothing that would cost them a significant amount of time or factory money.


Their response to him was, basically, "Shoooo... We have ZERO interest in how your car runs, and in fact will do nothing to help you achieve success on the drag strip, because that is not the image we want for our cars." He ended up selling th car.

Insofar as adding horsepower before anyone has run a car with that engine down the track, as Bill Harris has pointed out, didn't NHRA do exactly the same thing to the NASCAR (single 4bbl) Hemi, a couple of years ago? I heard that someone who was, in fact, building a car for that motor stopped the project, cold, when they heard that NHRA had done that.

Where's the logic in that??? How can they know the factor is wrong before they've even seen one run?
The racing divisions are not run anymore by real racers or mechanics like in the early days; today they are run by PR people.
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Old 01-05-2008, 10:27 AM   #8
Myron Piatek
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Cool Re: 09 challenger

Quote:
Originally Posted by BRETV View Post
To Myron:

I have been messing with the 4.6 DOHC 32v motor in this Cobra and between having 4 chains, 4 cams, 32 valve springs and lifter's and it being wider from valve cover to valve cover than a Boss 429 or a 426 hemi it been a piece of cake YA RIGHT, it's been a hand full.

P.S. I just want to tell ya little story. The first night I ever went bracket racing was on a Sat. night about 1986, in Orlando and who do I get first round was this Mopar guy who dialed slow, caught me at the 1/8 and fender raced me to the finish line and wore me out and I think it was you.


Good luck in 08 guys!!
Bret Velde
3028 A/S 2003 Cobra

Didn't you get me back at the US Class Nationals? It's been a while, but I think I got beat by a later model Mustang.

With cutbacks at Mopar Performance, I'm concerned about what changes that will bring for Mopar sportsman racers in 2008!
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Old 01-05-2008, 12:13 PM   #9
Michael Beard
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Default Re: 09 challenger

Myron hold numbers? This I GOTTA see! LOL! I was going to get him a map to the brake pedal for Christmas, but I don't want him to get any better than he already is.

For what it's worth, Jon Clark, a Mopar Performance rep, was strolling the pits at the Canadian Nationals at Grand Bend a few years ago, and took the time to talk with Myron, Terry Knott, and myself, and presumably other Mopar racers. There's one manufacturer that cares! Hopefully Cerebus will allow its employees to maintain the good relationship the prior Chrysler parent companies have built over the years.
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Old 01-05-2008, 01:26 PM   #10
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Wink Re: 09 challenger

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Myron hold numbers? This I GOTTA see! LOL! I was going to get him a map to the brake pedal for Christmas.
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