Jones Head - Racers Only

[Erik Jones]

Originally Posted by TILBURG

Ok I guess I'll be the first to jump in. In no way is anything I say intended to bash mr Jones. NHRA has been going down the aftermarket path for some time. Not saying it's all been for the best but that's for you guys to judge. But this one until somethings get cleared up I do have a problem with. The angle plug deal Im not going to waste anytime with that there are enough people on here to debate that. But if in fact the head was cast by somebody for Eric then that's a game changer in the world of aftermarket heads. That I'm not sure we should be going down. Do I feel there should be a porters head for s/s? Yes As long as its coming from a manufacturer that anybody else can call summit jegs etc and get the same thing. If the pictures that were forwarded to me were correct it's just a AFR head with the logo machined off. But I'm not here to say the photos were correct. I guess in the end my question is if they allow a person to have there own casting or control over the casting where is this going to ever end?

Tilburg,

Hopefully i can clear up some of the issues with this whole deal. NHRA actually has a pretty strict guideline on their accepted products. I have been working on making parts and getting them approved and on the list for about 2 years. I have Pistons and now Cylinder Heads along with other parts like rockers, carb plates etc.. that i designed to fix specific problem. All of the NHRA accepted products have to be available to the general public and that is exactly what i have done. Anyone can buy my accepted products directly as stated on my web site.

With that being said i followed the same procedure as any of the companies on the list and waited my turn. I have heard for years that we need a smaller casting to start with so that is what i did. This is a fully machined head with seats and guides installed (in the approved location) just like the 4 other approved SBC heads on the list except i eliminated the "bogus welding" so any racer could start with the exact same platform as everyone else without the cost. In my opinion this levels the ball field. NHRA knows exactly who casts the heads because that is the first requirement on the letter that gets submitted. This is no different that the FE Pro Port casting that we have had for years.

[TILBURG]

Originally Posted by Erik Jones

Tilburg,

Hopefully i can clear up some of the issues with this whole deal. NHRA actually has a pretty strict guideline on their accepted products. I have been working on making parts and getting them approved and on the list for about 2 years. I have Pistons and now Cylinder Heads along with other parts like rockers, carb plates etc.. that i designed to fix specific problem. All of the NHRA accepted products have to be available to the general public and that is exactly what i have done. Anyone can buy my accepted products directly as stated on my web site.

With that being said i followed the same procedure as any of the companies on the list and waited my turn. I have heard for years that we need a smaller casting to start with so that is what i did. This is a fully machined head with seats and guides installed (in the approved location) just like the 4 other approved SBC heads on the list except i eliminated the "bogus welding" so any racer could start with the exact same platform as everyone else without the cost. In my opinion this levels the ball field. NHRA knows exactly who casts the heads because that is the first requirement on the letter that gets submitted. This is no different that the FE Pro Port casting that we have had for years.

Erik,
Im not here to say you did anything wrong in you acceptance process with NHRA. Don't think you did. I felt like you with all the welding BS that is needed it would have been nice if they took a core they already have approved and just made the ports Smaller. Which would cut costs and free up time in small shops which is where most of these things are produced. And when something blows up it don't take 6 months to get back on the track. BUT as it was brought up to me you do that anyone can do it. Edelbrock might as well just sell you a ported head. Put that way I guess it's better to maybe rethink my thoughts on that. I wish you the very best on your endeavor and I'm sure it will be fast stuff as your stuff is. Like I said earlier if this is what the racers want feed it to them. I'm out. Only thing I did miss who owns the casting

[Sean Cour]

In the past, the decision to allow replacement aftermarket parts such as the "Jones Porter Cylinder Head" for traditional Super Stock class cars, NHRA has taken the position to address three major points -- 1) the need, 2) the impact on preserving integrity and definition of the class, and 3) the resulting rise in cost. In regard to the "Jones Porter Cylinder Head," it appears those criteria no longer govern NHRA's position on such matters.

So let's examine those three criteria.

1-2) Need and ensuring integrity and definition: With a large selection of mass-produced after-market cylinder heads available, there is no need for this type of head for a class with restrictions such as valve guide angle, valve spacing, etc., or in following integrity and definition. Aside from the 1993-98 fuel-injection LT1, there never was a production 265-400 cubic inch small block Chevrolet cylinder head offered with angled spark plugs.

3) Cost (a key element in allowing the legalization of the "Jones Porter Cylinder Head"). The large number of after-market cylinder heads currently available and accepted by NHRA assures some key elements are maintained, such being produced to original OEM specifications -- valve guide angles are the proper 23-degree spacing, the chamber spacing maintains OEM specs, etc. These elements are a must as these heads are designed first to be sold to the much larger market than NHRA Super Stock racers an engine-builders in as much as Super Stock head sales are a very small fraction of the market and manufacturers must be sure that these heads will be able to used in a variety of applications so as to maximize their return on investment. This in turn also ensures that no matter what major manufacturer an engine-builder or head-porter chooses, they will do their own modifications. In short, everyone is pretty much working with a "spec" cylinder head.



The "Jones Porter Cylinder Head," would be great for a class that would allow any type of modifications such as changing the valve guide angles, moving valve position, chamber location, water jacket modifications, more extensive porting , custom ports, etc. However, allowing this type of head to be used in tradition Super Stock classes only guarantees costs will climb and class integrity will be compromised. Any creative cylinder head porter will use the "Jones Porter Cylinder Head" to morph current rules, making tech difficult at a time NHRA appears to be relaxing technical inspection. This would open a new area of confusion and more problems, and how to handle the next wave of porter heads. Allow one, how does NHRA say no to the next applicant? Recall the 1968 Mopar Hemi head, where the rules were allowed to morph to the point where a similar problem surfaced with the 1968 Hemi cars and before NHRA knew it, the Hemis ended up getting their own class, which has since lost some of its cache. NHRA might be better served to revisit some of the mistake of the past before making decisions that might guarantee more in the future.

In short, allowing the "Jones Porter Cylinder Head" and others like it to be made legal in traditional Super Stock class racing a will only guarantee costs to go up and controversy and problems to follow.

[john ancona]

This is not good for super stock and if accepted it will eventually find its way into stock eliminator. And if you disagree just look at the cam 54 mm cam tunnel that started in super stock . This never ending line to the door step of NHRA is going to speed up the demise of super stock and take stock with it .We could debate the I eliminated the " Bogus welding " all day, but just how do you get the exhaust port from the stock configuration to the welded (brazed) D port we are using now. Tilburg is correct NHRA has been going down the aftermarket path for some time.and the results
are creating to higher costs .

[Jeff Dona SS3269]

Eric I believe and many others that I have spoken with believe that giving you a engine builder a raw head to sell to all the other cly head / engine builders will open the door for a lot of speculation on wether they are getting the same head that you may or may not be using on your own engines. I’m not lashing out at you personally but if engine builder x did the same thing wouldn’t you be wondering and speculating if your getting the same spark plug height, seat and guide location, material left in areas to work with the list of things could go on for days. I personally think this machining process should be left to the manufacturer. At this point there are 4 heads available to use that I’m aware of why do we need to keep adding more. Like I said before this is nothing against you personally it’s just my opinion and the opinion of many others. You know this will open the box for everyone to do the same thing and nhra won’t be able turn them away so it’s like opening up pandoras box’s. Jeff Dona

[Jeff Dona SS3269]

One other thing I don’t understand is how these replacement heads only carry a 5 hp penalty when they are given several more ccs than than the factory head has. I know that’s the way they were excepted in the past but why keep doing it fix it! My lt1 combo gets 10 hp for basically the same head just better material that the seat don’t fall out of. Sorry to get off track but this is a unfair issue.

[Dan Fahey]

Sounds like SS is becoming more NASCAR

Stock/SS Components are failing as the rules allow more power.

Then NHRA introduces a fix which stretches the rules further.

[Erik Jones]

Originally Posted by Jeff Dona SS3269

Eric I believe and many others that I have spoken with believe that giving you a engine builder a raw head to sell to all the other cly head / engine builders will open the door for a lot of speculation on wether they are getting the same head that you may or may not be using on your own engines. I’m not lashing out at you personally but if engine builder x did the same thing wouldn’t you be wondering and speculating if your getting the same spark plug height, seat and guide location, material left in areas to work with the list of things could go on for days. I personally think this machining process should be left to the manufacturer. At this point there are 4 heads available to use that I’m aware of why do we need to keep adding more. Like I said before this is nothing against you personally it’s just my opinion and the opinion of many others. You know this will open the box for everyone to do the same thing and nhra won’t be able turn them away so it’s like opening up pandoras box’s. Jeff Dona

Jeff

You have a valid point... I don't think i need to answer for my integrity, my customers and people who have worked with me know where i stand on rules and being thrown into a certain group of people. I have worked hard to get where i am and i have no intention of tarnishing my reputation and losing what i have.

To answer your question as to what i would do if another Cylinder Head/ Engine builder did this same thing would i question what i was getting. My honest answer is no. When i start a project i have a goal in mind and how ever i end up at that within the confines of our rule book is what i do. One of the biggest discussions i have with my customers is the "Do what the rest are doing" I have never been that way and i will never go down that road. When i choose a part to start with i know what it will take and what i can get from it. I think the guys we are racing with do the same things, thats what makes Super Stock what it is.

[Jeff Dona SS3269]

Eric I’m not questioning your integrity and your hard work speaks for itself but parts that are on the manufacturer excepted product list must be available to everyone as the are made to keep a even playing field. Jeff Dona

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