What factors Determine Tow Rating

[Ed Wright]

Originally Posted by 1320racer

this^^^ and this vvvv

When I started trying to race again, I pulled mine on an open trailer with my wife's 1/2 ton, 350" Tahoe. Could have used more brake. Put brakes on both trailer axels. Bought a 2500 Suburban made all that much more comfortable.
Bought my 24' ATC (all aluminum) enclosed trailer. Very light for an enclosed trailer. Can't tell it is heavier than the steel Open trailer.

Came with 5 lug 15" wheels, and Goodyear Trailer tires. (Said Trailer right on the sidewalls) It moved around a lot in crosswinds, and meeting big trucks. Had brakes on one axle. I found 8 lug hubs with brakes that fit the axles. Put those on both axles, bought 16" wheels to fit, l put the same 245-75-16 Michelins on it that I use on the Suburban. Tows so much better. Stopping is much better, cross winds & big trucks no longer effect if. I would never go back to a 1/2 ton, or 15" trailer tires. Whole new deal now.
Same spare fits truck or the trailer. I also have used only Michelins on everything we owned for about 30 years now.

Hope I don't sound like I think I know everything. Just sharing what I experienced.

[Dan Fahey]

Been studying quite a lot about towing.
Next project adding more gear and tow specific designed converter..
The Caprice wagon currently uses 3.08 gears, had 2.56s before.
Typically run in Drive on hilly terrain on flatter grades in OD.

Mountains with sustained 7 percent grades.
Such as going north on Rt 15 PA / RT 99 NY
The engine is floored but able to hold 70mph, 3000/3200 rpm.

Driving west from Keystone in Pennsylvania (Rt 22/Rt 99) the grades were a lot steeper.
Managed to get over the Rt 22 grades at 35 mph in second gear.
Wow the engine and trans were hot.

Installing 3.73s to ease the westward and northern routes over the Appalachian Mountains.
Found a Hughes Towing Converter designed for towing .
Plus takes 7 quarts of Trans fluid and helps reduce trans temperature.

Eastward away from the Mountain/Hills in Maryland 3.08's are fine.
Also have a set of 4.10's, but think the 3.73's are fine for 27/28 inch tire.

Dan

[Dan Lattimore]

Originally Posted by Ed Wright

When I started trying to race again, I pulled mine on an open trailer with my wife's 1/2 ton, 350" Tahoe. Could have used more brake. Put brakes on both trailer axels. Bought a 2500 Suburban made all that much more comfortable.
Bought my 24' ATC (all aluminum) enclosed trailer. Very light for an enclosed trailer. Can't tell it is heavier than the steel Open trailer.

Came with 5 lug 15" wheels, and Goodyear Trailer tires. (Said Trailer right on the sidewalls) It moved around a lot in crosswinds, and meeting big trucks. Had brakes on one axle. I found 8 lug hubs with brakes that fit the axles. Put those on both axles, bought 16" wheels to fit, l put the same 245-75-16 Michelins on it that I use on the Suburban. Tows so much better. Stopping is much better, cross winds & big trucks no longer effect if. I would never go back to a 1/2 ton, or 15" trailer tires. Whole new deal now.
Same spare fits truck or the trailer. I also have used only Michelins on everything we owned for about 30 years now.

Hope I don't sound like I think I know everything. Just sharing what I experienced.

Hey Ed---What are those hubs off of ? I need some -- Thanks, Danny

[Ed Wright]

Originally Posted by Dan Lattimore

Hey Ed---What are those hubs off of ? I need some -- Thanks, Danny

Dan, from a local trailer dealer. Back in about 2008. I told the guy at a trailer & trailer parts dealer here what I wanted to do. I had trouble blowing out the 15" "trailer rated" tires that. And on it. Had 5 lug wheels, like a car. Found they were speed rated at 65 MPH. The speed limits on the many toll roads here is 75 MPH. I had a diesel motorhome until recently that I just set the cruise control, it ran the speed limits like the trailer was not back there. Ignorant me, I was not aware of the tire speed ratings. Blew out a few. SMH
The trailer parts guy told me I needed to put 16" wheels on it, to get the load ratings & speed ratings I need to run the speed limits. Same 8 lug wheels & tires as my 2500 Suburban. Tows so much better. The original trailer tires & our 1/2 ton Tahoe towed it, but not nearly as stable as the 3/4 ton Suburban & better tires.
Had to buy the whole assembly for each trailer wheel. Four bolts holds each to the end of the trailer axle. You will see the difference first time you tow it. I thought the 1/2 Ton Tahoe and 15" trailer tires were fine, until the first trip with the new stuff. Safer & more comfortable on windy days, also on 2 lane roads with 18 wheelers. I have the same 16" Michelins on the trailer as the Suburban. They use 65 psi. Same 8 lug wheels.

[Shaun Quill]

I believe in overkill when it comes to towing.Much better safe than sorry.I’ve been there and I’ll never tow with any less than a dually. Dual wheels make it so nice going down the highway and if you ever come up on a hairy situation you’ll be glad you had those big brakes. Station wagons may go up and down the highway just fine, but if you ever need to avoid a situation or stop quickly you may be in trouble. Just looking out for you.

[Ed Wright]

I agree. A doolie would be safer.

[GTX JOHN]

I agree with the above two posts!

However, many trailer will not accept the 16 inch
wheel/tires due to the fender not clearing.

[Dan Fahey]

Originally Posted by GTX JOHN

I agree with the above two posts!

However, many trailer will not accept the 16 inch
wheel/tires due to the fender not clearing.

That is my situation.
There was a good conversation on Trailer Tires earlier this year.
I got new 6 ply now know 8 and 10 ply are available for the 15 inch wheel.
Also learned the manufacture says you can run 70lbs on a 65lb rated tire.

On trucks Dodge, GM and Ford have an impressive new offerings and choices.

[6130]

Dan, you came here and asked a question. A lot of people, with a lot of experience in this area, gave you your answer:

Originally Posted by Rusty Davenport

All of these performance ratings are great but if you are planning on leaving town......GET THE VEHICLE WITH THE BEST BRAKES AND THE MOST WHEELS ON THE GROUND.....THE PERFORMANCE IS NOTHING WHEN YOU ARE HAULING *** AND THE BRAKE LIGHTS START TO COME ON IN FRONT OF YOU !!!!!!!!!!!

Originally Posted by 6130

Are you talking about the Silverado 1500?

With all due respects, I would not tow three tons of stuff behind a half-ton pickup on a public road shared with other motorists.

For starters, the 2019 Silverado 1500 comes on P-metric (passenger car) tires. Light-duty truck (load range "C") tires are an option. No load range "E" or even "D" truck tires are available on the Silverado 1500.

Half-ton trucks do not come with full-floating rear axles, so if you break a rear axle outboard of whatever is retaining it, you lose a rear wheel and half of your braking system.

I don't know what rear end GM is using for the particular Silverado 1500 variant that you're considering, but historically, GM's half-ton pickups have used C-clips at the inboard ends for axle retention, which means that if you lose a C-clip or snap an axle anywhere outboard of the C-clip, you lose a rear wheel and half of your braking system.

Half-ton pickups also have much smaller brakes, smaller wheel bearings, and so on, which makes them less safe when towing.

Modern light-duty trucks have a lot more horsepower than older light-duty trucks did, the transmissions are certainly getting better, and the manufacturer's tow ratings have increased because of this, but I wouldn't tow three tons of stuff with anything less than the sturdiest 3/4-ton pickup, and even that would be a big compromise.

The smart choice would be a one-ton with proper load range "E" tires, dual rear wheels, and a full-floating rear axle. Keep in mind that even a one-ton 3500 is still technically a light-duty truck.

You don't need to pay for a fancy diesel engine to tow a car trailer. Escalating wants and desires of consumers fuel the current horsepower and torque race in light-duty trucks, but the truth is, modern pickups are not lacking for horsepower, no matter which engine you choose. People have successfully and safely towed massive amounts of stuff with no more than about 200 horsepower, forever. Diesel fuel typically costs more than regular gasoline in the U.S., which makes it nearly impossible to recover the additional cost of a diesel engine option based upon any actual fuel savings that may or may not occur.

If you skip the foofy stuff, you can get a one-ton dually for no more money than a typical loaded half-ton. GM's "W/T" (Work Truck) comes to mind- they may come with rubber mats and vinyl seats, but they are far from stripped. GM's one-ton dually W/T comes with big 4-wheel power disc brakes, ABS, power steering, air-conditioning, power windows, tilt steering column, cruise control, power door locks, a 6-speaker audio system with blue tooth, a 7" touch screen, a rear-vision camera, an Eaton locking rear diff, a 2.5" hitch platform, trailer wiring, integrated trailer controller, heavy-duty 6-speed automatic transmission, heavy-duty engine oil cooler, 150-amp alternator, heavy-duty transmission cooler, 4.10 rear end gearing, and a standard 360-horsepower Vortec 6.0 V8 gas engine. Looks like they start at $40,595, and you'd probably be able to negotiate a price less than that.

Originally Posted by 6130

Operating well within the rated towing capacity of a vehicle (like for example towing a 6,000-pound trailer behind a one-ton dually that has a 13,800-pound rated towing capacity) would be much safer than towing something that is at or near the maximum rated towing capacity of a vehicle (like for example towing a 6,000-pound trailer behind a vehicle with a 7,400-pound rated towing capacity).


It's not like you're 100% safe towing 7,399 pounds and the truck spontaneously blows up at 7,401 pounds- the laws of statistical probability are at work here. If you're maxxed out on your towing capacity, then it stands to reason that you would be expected to be the first one to have problems. Heck, I've seen plenty of tire, brake, wheel bearing, and rear drive axle failures in half-ton trucks that have never carried or towed a load.

Originally Posted by Tar Heel

I don't have a dog in this fight but I know in the last 2 years we've towed 7K lbs. (24' enclosed trailer and car) with a very well equipped late-model GM 1/2 ton truck. We then sold that truck and bought a 3500HD DRW 4WD Duramax and towing the same set-up was night and day difference. I'm not even talking about the power either. The 1/2 was a constant white knuckle event with sway even with good weight distribution bars and a sway control kit. All of that disappeared with the one ton. Tow with a DRW truck one time and see if you ever go back.

Originally Posted by 6130

Half-ton trucks may be better than they used to be in some ways, but half-ton trucks have never come with full-floating rear axles or load range "E" tires, and those things were standard on 3/4-ton trucks for many, many years.

Conversely, 3/4-ton trucks have never come on P-metric (passenger car) tires, and 3/4 ton trucks have never had their rear axles held in by something as flimsy as C-clips.

Originally Posted by MR DERBY CITY

Just take a stroll through the pits at a local points meet. That will answer all your questions regarding 1/2 ton pickups. Do you want to save money,.....or save your life....??

Originally Posted by james schaechter

The only person that will really push you to a 1/2 ton is a salesman with a lot full of half tons for sale! I agree, the new half tons are much better than they used to be. They might just let you drive over your head. 3/4HD and one tons are much more stable, safer braking, and will be more reliable as they age. A half ton that barely makes the grade is stressed a lot more for my comfort level.

Originally Posted by jmcarter

X2, also in one of the related threads someone mentioned the financial benefits of possibly just renting a truck for towing a trailer a few times a year. Not wanting to use my Motorhome for a quick 5,000 mile trip to pick up my new race car I rented a 3/4 Ford from Enterprise Rent a Truck and with the 6.2 gas motor it performed flawlessly for far less $ per mile than I could have done otherwise, new trucks are so pricey renting may make sense for you as well.

Originally Posted by 1320racer

this^^^ and this vvvv

Originally Posted by 6130

Exactly.


...and other people's lives too- there are other innocent families out there on the roads, that may not be as keen on risk-taking.

Originally Posted by 6130

Yup. I'm born and raised in the car business (although I worked in the back end, not the front end), and I can't even begin to tell you how many times I have seen some coke-head car salesman blowing smoke up somebody's butt regarding this subject.

They're afraid that if they tell the customer that he would be safer towing a 3/4 ton, a one-ton, or a one-ton dually, that he'll lose his sales commission to some other coke-head car salesman down the street, when the other guy offers to sell him a half-ton pickup and a 5th wheel hitch to go with it.

Originally Posted by nhramnl

Jim is right on the money. I would venture to guess that there isn't, and won't be, anybody who says they've used both 1/2 and 3/4 tons pickups and would be completely satisfied with a 1/2 ton. I've used 2500 HD Chevys for decades and have never, in any situation, felt I had "too much truck" for the task. I think the real truth with people who say a 1/2 ton works fine as a trailer puller is that they either don't have, or don't want to spend, the extra money.

Originally Posted by Barry Polley

Oh for sure. But, the new 2500/3500HD plus trucks also have bigger brake packages. I put safety first. Not $. You are asking a light duty truck to do the job of a Heavier duty truck. I like most guys on here have towed with lighter trucks. I like piece of mind. IMHO...

Originally Posted by Ed Wright

James, it likely won't be what the knowledgeable, experienced racers he asked have recommend. He always spends a couple of days telling people what the correct answer is, when he asks for advice.

Not likely many that have towed with both a 1/2 ton & 3/4 ton would prefer the 1/2 ton. There is much more to it than brakes. Go to an NHRA race (not talking local bracket races) and see how many are towing with a 1/2 ton. Much more to it than brakes, people that have towed with both know that. Maybe the wind never blows where Dan lives & races. He is also trying to race a very heavy car.

Originally Posted by Dave Gantz

Dan, don't take offense, your questions always seem to be looking for the lest expensive solution. As Ed said, then you try to convince all of your advisors that they are wrong.

It's easy for me to spend someone else's money, but the obvious solution is to get something that will do the job as safely as possible, for your sake and everyone else's around you.

I drove 1.3 million safe miles in a tractor trailer. It was always more than capable of doing the job, in all kinds of conditions. (A very important aspect.) I don't know if I could say the same if I drove 1.3 million miles in a borderline safely loaded 1/2 ton truck with trailer.

Originally Posted by Ronnie Hamlin

When (not if) you get into an emergency or panic situation, you will be thankful if you have more vehicle than you need for what you're pulling.

Originally Posted by Ed Wright

A lot of us have been there.

Originally Posted by Shaun Quill

I believe in overkill when it comes to towing. Much better safe than sorry. I’ve been there and I’ll never tow with any less than a dually. Dual wheels make it so nice going down the highway and if you ever come up on a hairy situation you’ll be glad you had those big brakes. Station wagons may go up and down the highway just fine, but if you ever need to avoid a situation or stop quickly you may be in trouble. Just looking out for you.

Originally Posted by Ed Wright

I agree. A doolie would be safer.

Seems like a pretty clear answer to me.

But from all of this sage advice, you conclude that your station wagon is the best tow vehicle. That just makes no sense.

If you're just asking the question because you just want to do what you just want to do, and you're looking for people to affirm your choice, then you should probably let us know that up front.

As I stated before, you can buy a brand-spanking new 1-ton dually for less than $40,000, with a full warranty, big 4-wheel power disc brakes, ABS, power steering, air-conditioning, power windows, tilt steering column, cruise control, power door locks, a 6-speaker audio system with blue tooth, a 7" touch screen, a rear-vision camera, an Eaton locking rear diff, full-floating drive axles, load range "E" tires, a 2.5" hitch platform, trailer wiring, integrated trailer controller, heavy-duty 6-speed lockup automatic overdrive transmission, heavy-duty engine oil cooler, 150-amp alternator, heavy-duty transmission cooler, 4.10 rear end gearing, and a standard 360-horsepower Vortec 6.0 V8 gas engine.

[Dan Lattimore]

Originally Posted by Ed Wright

Dan, from a local trailer dealer. Back in about 2008. I told the guy at a trailer & trailer parts dealer here what I wanted to do. I had trouble blowing out the 15" "trailer rated" tires that. And on it. Had 5 lug wheels, like a car. Found they were speed rated at 65 MPH. The speed limits on the many toll roads here is 75 MPH. I had a diesel motorhome until recently that I just set the cruise control, it ran the speed limits like the trailer was not back there. Ignorant me, I was not aware of the tire speed ratings. Blew out a few. SMH
The trailer parts guy told me I needed to put 16" wheels on it, to get the load ratings & speed ratings I need to run the speed limits. Same 8 lug wheels & tires as my 2500 Suburban. Tows so much better. The original trailer tires & our 1/2 ton Tahoe towed it, but not nearly as stable as the 3/4 ton Suburban & better tires.
Had to buy the whole assembly for each trailer wheel. Four bolts holds each to the end of the trailer axle. You will see the difference first time you tow it. I thought the 1/2 Ton Tahoe and 15" trailer tires were fine, until the first trip with the new stuff. Safer & more comfortable on windy days, also on 2 lane roads with 18 wheelers. I have the same 16" Michelins on the trailer as the Suburban. They use 65 psi. Same 8 lug wheels.

Hey Ed ---- Thanks for the great info, exactly what I've been wanting to do. --- Danny