Chevy OE cranks, cyl. heads.

Adger Smith · 01-05-2019, 12:57 PM

Greg
I have been doing engines since I was in High School back in the mid 60's. I have seen head cores that are all over the place with numbers.
I have seen cores that came from 2 different core box sections. Like down in the water passage there is a 487 cast in the bottom mold and then a 992 up on the top with the shift and mold and date codes. To me that just tells me that the foundry put two core boxes together to keep production up. You know they do anything to keep production going. Every one I have seen with a 487 in the water passage had a large volume intake runner. Like they used the bottom half of the core as a 487X and the top with another number on it.
I'm pretty sure there were some old guys back then that were savvy to anomalies like this and ran faster than those of us that had not figured it out.
OK, Billy and Dwight run with it..

Ed Wright · 01-05-2019, 01:42 PM

I was fortunate enough to find a local shop with a large inventory of cylinder head castings when I had my old C/SM car. Had to use production head castings, with very little porting allowed. Remember one inch below the seat?
I was able to locate five 461X castings. Of course picked the two my flow bench liked the best to start with. Seems like the "X" Intake ports were about 5cc larger?
The 5 #461X castings I found did also flow a little more on my home built bench than the regular 461 & 462 castings I had. A little more than those other castings normally varied. Even better after Lee Shepard laid his hands on them. I was more impressed with the X castings than Lee was. Think Lee knew more than me? LOL

Billy Nees · 01-05-2019, 03:20 PM

I have always been told that an X was put into the core box when it was worn out.
Now, that could make sense or maybe there were some Racer types loose in the foundry who had found some really good core boxes and made sure that special projects used these pieces.

bubski · 01-05-2019, 03:46 PM

This could be the smoking gun as to the great 283 intake travesty !! But the 'damage is already done ' !!! OMG the 283s are taking over the eliminator !!!

Greenlight · 01-05-2019, 08:07 PM

Some additional links that may not be as useful, but refer to casting marks such as "CFD" (Central Foundry Division) and engine markings "F" (Flint) and "T" Tonawanda being used to identify origin.

https://www.mortec.com/location.htm
https://www.mortec.com/locatpg2.htm

http://hotrod.gregwapling.com/chevrolet/mckinnon.html

https://news.pickuptrucks.com/2011/0...g-center-.html

Ed Wright · 01-05-2019, 08:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bubski

This could be the smoking gun as to the great 283 intake travesty !! But the 'damage is already done ' !!! OMG the 283s are taking over the eliminator !!!

I had one pair, and saw one other 520X. My '56 was gone by then.
Never found any X castings for my LT1. LOL

Adger Smith · 01-05-2019, 09:19 PM

Billy, My buddies at Brodix tell me that as their Core boxes wear the port is cast smaller.
I was questioning them one day about their advertisement for port size and flow. I told them that what I buy never matches the advertised size and flow.
Dave Roder told me it was because all the ads are done off the first production run and as they pour/cast more heads the ports get smaller.
I'm no foundry expert so I just shut up and accepted the explanation.
Probably what they wanted me to do, LoL.
I would bet that the GM X means the mold/core box was modified. If the X was for worn out why would they be using them? No doubt the X castings I've seen always seem to have more intake volume.

Dwight Southerland · 01-06-2019, 09:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Billy Nees

I have always been told that an X was put into the core box when it was worn out.
Now, that could make sense or maybe there were some Racer types loose in the foundry who had found some really good core boxes and made sure that special projects used these pieces.

Has anyone ever seen a '61 or '62 date code 461 casting that was NOT a 461X? I haven't and I have seen 20 or 30 of them in junk yards.

Greenlight · 01-07-2019, 04:07 PM

Dwight, according to the source below and other sources the 461 and 461X casting numbers date back to 1961 (first 327 engines).

http://www.corvetteactioncenter.com/...gines-286.html

http://www.chevytech.com/3c3782461.html

Adger Smith · 01-16-2019, 04:54 PM

Interesting,
No 22542525 heads on the list.
Olds Nascar head/

01-05-2019, 12:57 PM	#1
Adger Smith VIP Member Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Texarkana Ark/TX Posts: 2,446 Likes: 575 Liked 880 Times in 311 Posts	Re: Chevy OE cranks, cyl. heads. Greg I have been doing engines since I was in High School back in the mid 60's. I have seen head cores that are all over the place with numbers. I have seen cores that came from 2 different core box sections. Like down in the water passage there is a 487 cast in the bottom mold and then a 992 up on the top with the shift and mold and date codes. To me that just tells me that the foundry put two core boxes together to keep production up. You know they do anything to keep production going. Every one I have seen with a 487 in the water passage had a large volume intake runner. Like they used the bottom half of the core as a 487X and the top with another number on it. I'm pretty sure there were some old guys back then that were savvy to anomalies like this and ran faster than those of us that had not figured it out. OK, Billy and Dwight run with it.. __________________ Adger Smith (Former SS) Last edited by Adger Smith; 01-05-2019 at 12:59 PM. Reason: add

01-05-2019, 01:42 PM	#2
Ed Wright Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Sand Springs, OK Posts: 8,132 Likes: 896 Liked 390 Times in 170 Posts	Re: Chevy OE cranks, cyl. heads. I was fortunate enough to find a local shop with a large inventory of cylinder head castings when I had my old C/SM car. Had to use production head castings, with very little porting allowed. Remember one inch below the seat? I was able to locate five 461X castings. Of course picked the two my flow bench liked the best to start with. Seems like the "X" Intake ports were about 5cc larger? The 5 #461X castings I found did also flow a little more on my home built bench than the regular 461 & 462 castings I had. A little more than those other castings normally varied. Even better after Lee Shepard laid his hands on them. I was more impressed with the X castings than Lee was. Think Lee knew more than me? LOL __________________ Ed Wright 4156 SS/JA

01-05-2019, 03:20 PM	#3
Billy Nees VIP Member Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: On a hilltop in Pa. Posts: 4,493 Likes: 3,595 Liked 7,716 Times in 1,738 Posts	Re: Chevy OE cranks, cyl. heads. I have always been told that an X was put into the core box when it was worn out. Now, that could make sense or maybe there were some Racer types loose in the foundry who had found some really good core boxes and made sure that special projects used these pieces. __________________ Billy Nees 1188 STK, SS I'm not spending 100K to win 2K

01-05-2019, 08:07 PM	#5
Greenlight Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 215 Likes: 16 Liked 79 Times in 22 Posts	Re: Chevy OE cranks, cyl. heads. Some additional links that may not be as useful, but refer to casting marks such as "CFD" (Central Foundry Division) and engine markings "F" (Flint) and "T" Tonawanda being used to identify origin. https://www.mortec.com/location.htm https://www.mortec.com/locatpg2.htm http://hotrod.gregwapling.com/chevrolet/mckinnon.html https://news.pickuptrucks.com/2011/0...g-center-.html

01-05-2019, 09:19 PM	#7
Adger Smith VIP Member Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Texarkana Ark/TX Posts: 2,446 Likes: 575 Liked 880 Times in 311 Posts	Re: Chevy OE cranks, cyl. heads. Billy, My buddies at Brodix tell me that as their Core boxes wear the port is cast smaller. I was questioning them one day about their advertisement for port size and flow. I told them that what I buy never matches the advertised size and flow. Dave Roder told me it was because all the ads are done off the first production run and as they pour/cast more heads the ports get smaller. I'm no foundry expert so I just shut up and accepted the explanation. Probably what they wanted me to do, LoL. I would bet that the GM X means the mold/core box was modified. If the X was for worn out why would they be using them? No doubt the X castings I've seen always seem to have more intake volume. __________________ Adger Smith (Former SS)

01-05-2019, 03:46 PM	#4
bubski Member Join Date: Dec 2009 Posts: 228 Likes: 14 Liked 165 Times in 60 Posts	Re: Chevy OE cranks, cyl. heads. This could be the smoking gun as to the great 283 intake travesty !! But the 'damage is already done ' !!! OMG the 283s are taking over the eliminator !!!

01-07-2019, 04:07 PM	#9
Greenlight Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 215 Likes: 16 Liked 79 Times in 22 Posts	Re: Chevy OE cranks, cyl. heads. Dwight, according to the source below and other sources the 461 and 461X casting numbers date back to 1961 (first 327 engines). http://www.corvetteactioncenter.com/...gines-286.html http://www.chevytech.com/3c3782461.html

01-16-2019, 04:54 PM	#10
Adger Smith VIP Member Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Texarkana Ark/TX Posts: 2,446 Likes: 575 Liked 880 Times in 311 Posts	Re: Chevy OE cranks, cyl. heads. Interesting, No 22542525 heads on the list. Olds Nascar head/ __________________ Adger Smith (Former SS)