What Stock rules would you change?

[Ron Ortiz]

Well if that is the case then why don't they just eliminate the AHFS all together. But that is for another thread, this is about stock rules.

Close the lanes after final call.

[Jim Caughlin]

Originally Posted by Ron Ortiz

Well if that is the case then why don't they just eliminate the AHFS all together. But that is for another thread, this is about stock rules.

Close the lanes after final call.

The alternative is equally bad. If you recall, before AHFS, NHRA just made arbitrary adjustments with no explanation. I don't have a solution, just saying what is currently in place is obviously being gamed by racers. Don't we all want a better system?

[B Parker]

Anyone remember what year the AHFS was implemented? I have never been a big fan but it's better than not doing anything at all. Since it was implemented we now have better trany's. After market blocks, heads, intakes and carbs for some of the combo's. The ring combo's are better. Roller rockers and now solid lifters for all. Three speeds instead of two speeds. Better oils and so on. Just a guess but the average combo should be two tenths or quicker now.
How about if they at least tweak the system so it's up to today's standard.
At the Epping divisional it was so bad the announcer asked several times over the PA for our Division One Director to have it be a mine shaft race so he could watch 1/4 mile racing instead of 1000 ft shut off's. I'm hoping our reps are taking a look at the system and recommend some changes. BP

[Billy Nees]

Originally Posted by B Parker

Anyone remember what year the AHFS was implemented? I have never been a big fan but it's better than not doing anything at all. Since it was implemented we now have better trany's. After market blocks, heads, intakes and carbs for some of the combo's. The ring combo's are better. Roller rockers and now solid lifters for all. Three speeds instead of two speeds. Better oils and so on. Just a guess but the average combo should be two tenths or quicker now.
How about if they at least tweak the system so it's up to today's standard.
At the Epping divisional it was so bad the announcer asked several times over the PA for our Division One Director to have it be a mine shaft race so he could watch 1/4 mile racing instead of 1000 ft shut off's. I'm hoping our reps are taking a look at the system and recommend some changes. BP

Barry, the average HP Big Block combo should be 2 tenths faster now. Anybody not running a Big-Block FFFFord, Chevy or Mopar not so much.
How about as a "tweak" to the system, during the course of the season the Techs take apart the fastest car of that combo and a mid-pack car of the same combo and do some comparing and find out just who's doing what? And if the fast car's stuff doesn't look at least remotely like the mid-pack car's stuff then he's gone.

[B Parker]

Originally Posted by Billy Nees

Barry, the average HP Big Block combo should be 2 tenths faster now. Anybody not running a Big-Block FFFFord, Chevy or Mopar not so much.
How about as a "tweak" to the system, during the course of the season the Techs take apart the fastest car of that combo and a mid-pack car of the same combo and do some comparing and find out just who's doing what? And if the fast car's stuff doesn't look at least remotely like the mid-pack car's stuff then he's gone.

So Billy are you telling me unless you race a Big Block combo your not able to take advantage of roller rockers, solid lifter, all the new ring combo's. Improvement's with convertor's and trany's. Better shocks. After market carbs. Three speeds for two speeds. Maybe you should look at the list of approved after market parts by NHRA. I think you'll find a lot of approved parts for more than just Big Block's. You seem to have a problem with me. If you think I'm cheating bring your money to a track. I don't get out much but I try to make Indy. I've been to the barn several times with multiple cars and have yet not made it threw. Barry
Billy what if it's the mid pack car stuff that is wrong. I seen several slower cars not get by tec.

[B Parker]

. Bp

[Billy Nees]

Originally Posted by B Parker

So Billy are you telling me unless you race a Big Block combo your not able to take advantage of roller rockers, solid lifter, all the new ring combo's. Improvement's with convertor's and trany's. Better shocks. After market carbs. Three speeds for two speeds. Maybe you should look at the list of approved after market parts by NHRA. I think you'll find a lot of approved parts for more than just Big Block's. You seem to have a problem with me. If you think I'm cheating bring your money to a track. I don't get out much but I try to make Indy. I've been to the barn several times with multiple cars and have yet not made it threw. Barry
Billy what if it's the mid pack car stuff that is wrong. I seen several slower cars not get by tec.

Barry, first of all I don't "have a problem" with you. Paranoid? I do however "have a problem" with the 21ST century mindset that everyone's cheating so it's got to be legal right?
Secondly, "unless you race a Big Block combo" or certain "good" Small Block combos (340,360,350,some 327s) your roller rockers and solid lifters were given out by NHRA to help keep Big Blocks from breaking stuff. They're worth nothing (or next to nothing) in a non-HP combo.
Your 1K ring packages are a joke.
The only thing that better shocks do in a not-so-fast combo is improve the Driver, nothing there.
Aftermarket carbs? Really? Not here.
3 speeds for 2 speeds? Do you even know why that was done? It was done so that the early Drag Packs and Cobra Jets (that came with Powerglides) could run 3 speeds. It had NOTHING to do with the non-HP Chevys.
And you jump to making it about money again. "Bring my money to the track"? Why? If everyone's cheating it's legal right?
Do you even know where your burger money comes from? You should pay me a visit some time. I'm looking at it on-the hoof out my window. (that last one is just a little friendly Ba**Busting)
Now, do you want to make a SERIOUS wager? Why don't we meet each other at a neutral track and bring some tools and friends. You go to the local junkyard (in case you don't know what that is, it's where poor folks shop for Racecar parts) and get some heads, a carb and an intake for MY combo and I'll go to my buddies Corvette shop and get a set of restoration quality heads, an intake and carb for YOUR combo and we'll change some parts and see who can go faster. I would be willing to wager some of that hamburger-in-the-rough that I will.
Bring your money!

[B Parker]

Originally Posted by Billy Nees

Barry, first of all I don't "have a problem" with you. Paranoid? I do however "have a problem" with the 21ST century mindset that everyone's cheating so it's got to be legal right?
Secondly, "unless you race a Big Block combo" or certain "good" Small Block combos (340,360,350,some 327s) your roller rockers and solid lifters were given out by NHRA to help keep Big Blocks from breaking stuff. They're worth nothing (or next to nothing) in a non-HP combo.
Your 1K ring packages are a joke.
The only thing that better shocks do in a not-so-fast combo is improve the Driver, nothing there.
Aftermarket carbs? Really? Not here.
3 speeds for 2 speeds? Do you even know why that was done? It was done so that the early Drag Packs and Cobra Jets (that came with Powerglides) could run 3 speeds. It had NOTHING to do with the non-HP Chevys.
And you jump to making it about money again. "Bring my money to the track"? Why? If everyone's cheating it's legal right?
Do you even know where your burger money comes from? You should pay me a visit some time. I'm looking at it on-the hoof out my window. (that last one is just a little friendly Ba**Busting)
Now, do you want to make a SERIOUS wager? Why don't we meet each other at a neutral track and bring some tools and friends. You go to the local junkyard (in case you don't know what that is, it's where poor folks shop for Racecar parts) and get some heads, a carb and an intake for MY combo and I'll go to my buddies Corvette shop and get a set of restoration quality heads, an intake and carb for YOUR combo and we'll change some parts and see who can go faster. I would be willing to wager some of that hamburger-in-the-rough that I will.
Bring your money!

Billy nothing you could say would make me paranoid I have 15 employees, I'm on my third wife and my business is in Ma. I'm not paranoid I'm nuts. Maybe I'm naïve but I don't really think that many that race in Div. One are cheating. In one of your last post you said if you run a Big Block car you should be 2 tenths quicker others not so much. Now you say if you run a Big Block car and most good small block cars. And I will ad any of the newer cars. Now we are up to about 75% of the stockers. And I get it your combo not so much. Never did I say why they changed the trany rule. But they did. And the good 3 speeds in the older cars that never came with them improved at least .05 or more. Heads and intakes that are now allowed on year combo's they never came on. Not to get into all of them but do ya think the 327 intakes on the 283 was worth anything. I get that roller rocker and solids weren't worth very much but they have to be worth something even if it's only a hundredth or two. I know you don't know my brother or myself but if you ask anyone that knows us we live by do 10 things that are worth a hundredth and you now have a tenth. Your "1k ring packages are a joke" I'm not in the ring business and unless your hanging around Trout Run you have no idea what's in my car for rings. You might be right about taking the fastest car In a combo an compare it to the average one. I also think in a lot of cases you'll have the average combo person scratching their heads wondering why their car is not as fast. I'm not sure if you know how long my brother and I have been racing Stock. We started back in the early 70's and yes Billy we chased possums around the bone yards for parts. Today not so much. We all choose the combo's we run for different reasons. But lets face it most of todays Stockers small and big blocks are going threw the lights at or about 7500 to 8000. As long as they are letting us use aftermarket parts to help our part survive I'm not putting anything in my race car that came out of a bone yard. I've never written a letter to anyone at NHRA about getting different parts or HP off a combo I run. I will stand by my statement that the majority of the cars racing Stock with the rules and the parts they have let in should be able to go at least 2 tenths quicker over the last 15 years when the AHFS was implemented. I didn't have a friend that has a Corvette shop down the road from us but our local machine shop when we stated racing stock was owned by Dale Hall and his Partner Norm. Not many may remember his Alcohol Cars but you being an elder I'm sure you do. To this day I still believe they were two of the smartest small block Chevy guys out there. Billy we are on the same side I just want to race and have fun. BP

[Mark Yacavone]

Originally Posted by Jim Caughlin

The alternative is equally bad. If you recall, before AHFS, NHRA just made arbitrary adjustments with no explanation. I don't have a solution, just saying what is currently in place is obviously being gamed by racers. Don't we all want a better system?

Not a solution but a band-aid adjustment.
S/SS is supposed to be a performance category, with indexes that reflect the hp per pound potential, yet cars routinely run 1 second under the supposed standard. Something ain't right here.

Here you go:
Raised the automatic hp trigger two tenths.
Then lower all indexes 4 tenths.
One second under index= instant hp..Mandatory tear down

NO,NO,NO more goodies for five (5) years.

Example...A/SA 11.00 becomes 10.60
Run of 9.59 = hp.

Response to counterpoint, right up front..I'll save you the trouble.
Most car , even at the bottom, are 2-3 under. If you can't pick your car up a tenth, with all the current technology, possibly you're in the wrong sport, or maybe go bracket racing for a while, then come back. Lots of cars are quota-ed out of national meets anyway . Why not start here, seeing this IS a performance eliminator, right?

For? Against? Tell us why..

[Hacksaw]

If you lower the indexes by 4 tenths, all the local Series type races will suffer from a smaller turnout of competitors. Not good. Currently most series honor IHRA indexes, but for how much longer? I like your plan, but it seems to be a double edged sword where the little guy gets beat up to suit the quick ones who are holding back. Seems to me this more of a Stock Elim. problem. Maybe go 2 tenths lower on the index?