Index Change Rumor

Myron Piatek · 11-23-2019, 05:11 PM

Even if you get a deal on a reasonably fast race car, you have to have the time & money to maintain that level. This becomes harder if indexes keep getting lowered. All that does is steepen the learning and financial curve needed, which can get discouraging to start or even maintain a racing program. Slower cars can still be competitive in regular eliminations by (not easily) achieving the current "minimum performance standard" (index), but they have to accept the odds in possible heads-up runs.

There are several opportunities for "fast" cars - qualifying, class eliminations & regular random heads-up runs, without discouraging the slower cars. There has to be a balance for Sportsman racers because too much emphasis on having to be among the fastest brings it closer to a Pro-like atmosphere ($$$) and it's obvious that many can't maintain that level there even with sponsorship. Pro's barely have full fields. Luckily. Stock & SS still, usually, do.

IMO National events are detrimental to Sportsman racing because of the low quotas and high investment in grading points. While a local racer may still not be able to afford to enter a "local" national, the "Baby Gators" trend may be helpful by providing for a greater number of cars to run heads-up for class.

Sure, Stock & SS is "performance based". But even from the start when you could be competitive with a street legal car off the showroom, it was more creativity within the rules and driving skill, not necessarily money. They are, after all, "Sportsman" classes.

Can't help but wonder if this is even a possible a rumor or someone just doing their annual "pot stirring" to see who they can get fired up.

340Cuda · 11-23-2019, 08:29 PM

While I can see the logic in lowering the indexes I don't see anyway it won't lower car count at the divisional races.

I for one expect to be struggling next year to get an old SS/BS car to run the current index in the heat. Lower the index much and you will only see me at the local test and tune.

Bill Lamb
4340

B Parker · 11-23-2019, 09:23 PM

Nhra

B Parker · 11-23-2019, 09:34 PM

Billy have you noticed most of the new young blood that have started racing Stock are in new 100,000 plus cars. Or they are second or third generation class racers. I don't know anyone under thirty whose remotely interested in getting involved in our type of racing. They would be nuts to. Why spend the money it cost to buy or build a car. Then buy tow equipment. Tow how many hours away and pay the entrance fee and now need a place to stay for several days. With no chance of getting your money back. There is nothing cheap about our type of racing. If your going to start drag racing why wouldn't you go to the local track with a car pay 1/3 the entrance only race for the one day and have a chance to win just as much. With almost no set of rules other than safety. It's just not the same car generation we had years ago. The only new blood NHRA seems to be interested in getting involve in class racing are with the new cars. They changed the rules that helped bring the cost to where it is. Then chased most of the sponsor's off that paid money. And if that wasn't enough now let only 50 cars in each class at national events. Unless of course your in a new car that you can race in Factory Stock. Our class is a pain in the #ss for them. Our type of racing has a shelf life that we can agree on. And at my age I don't really care about what my car is worth 5 to ten years from now. Not sure how long that is but as you said look at the ages of us guys racing. But even more important look at the ages of the guys and girls involved in it from the NHRA side Do you see many young people getting involved in that side of it. The money is about the same as it was when I started racing stock in the seventies. What does 25k equal to money in the seventies? BP

MEXJOE · 11-23-2019, 10:36 PM

How about this: Leave the indexes the way they are. And have NO AFS for any CLASS elimination or HEADS UP at all. (HOWEVER!). 1.20 under is MANDATORY complete tear down, at that race immediately at the conclusion of class eliminations. If found to be good then add a certain percentage hp to that combo? I this would kinda put all parties involved responsible and accountable.

Mark Yacavone · 11-24-2019, 01:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MEXJOE

How about this: Leave the indexes the way they are. And have NO AFS for any CLASS elimination or HEADS UP at all. (HOWEVER!). 1.20 under is MANDATORY complete tear down, at that race immediately at the conclusion of class eliminations. If found to be good then add a certain percentage hp to that combo? I this would kinda put all parties involved responsible and accountable.

Glen, What if the heads up is in the final on Sunday? Nobody wants to go to work at 6 pm Sunday, least of all, the tech guys.
Too many 1.20 under runs lately..Raise the trigger ..then no more goodies for five years.

Lee Valentine · 11-24-2019, 07:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mark Yacavone

Glen, What if the heads up is in the final on Sunday? Nobody wants to go to work at 6 pm Sunday, least of all, the tech guys.
Too many 1.20 under runs lately..Raise the trigger ..then no more goodies for five years.

seal the engine and must tear down next race. Horsepower dosen't happen until then.

MEXJOE · 11-24-2019, 11:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mark Yacavone

Glen, What if the heads up is in the final on Sunday? Nobody wants to go to work at 6 pm Sunday, least of all, the tech guys.
Too many 1.20 under runs lately..Raise the trigger ..then no more goodies for five years.

I think LAZY is the new ideal! All parties involved!

Pat6868 · 11-25-2019, 08:12 AM

IMHO pure stock was a good class. Pretty much stock eliminator before the valve spring change. With adherence to those rules anybody can afford to race. And the challenge of building a good car within the rules was there for anyone. Hence the term "entry level". Super stock is there for anyone who wants to really push it. Stock today, one way or another, is what the racers asked for which brings us to today's reality of the class. Not exactly my idea of progress.

Billy Nees · 11-24-2019, 08:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by B Parker

Billy have you noticed most of the new young blood that have started racing Stock are in new 100,000 plus cars. Or they are second or third generation class racers. I don't know anyone under thirty whose remotely interested in getting involved in our type of racing. They would be nuts to. Why spend the money it cost to buy or build a car. Then buy tow equipment. Tow how many hours away and pay the entrance fee and now need a place to stay for several days. With no chance of getting your money back. There is nothing cheap about our type of racing. If your going to start drag racing why wouldn't you go to the local track with a car pay 1/3 the entrance only race for the one day and have a chance to win just as much. With almost no set of rules other than safety. It's just not the same car generation we had years ago. The only new blood NHRA seems to be interested in getting involve in class racing are with the new cars. They changed the rules that helped bring the cost to where it is. Then chased most of the sponsor's off that paid money. And if that wasn't enough now let only 50 cars in each class at national events. Unless of course your in a new car that you can race in Factory Stock. Our class is a pain in the #ss for them. Our type of racing has a shelf life that we can agree on. And at my age I don't really care about what my car is worth 5 to ten years from now. Not sure how long that is but as you said look at the ages of us guys racing. But even more important look at the ages of the guys and girls involved in it from the NHRA side Do you see many young people getting involved in that side of it. The money is about the same as it was when I started racing stock in the seventies. What does 25k equal to money in the seventies? BP

Barry, you're right. Stock Eliminator is now officially for the rich. No one else need apply.

11-23-2019, 05:11 PM	#1
Myron Piatek VIP Member Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Florida Posts: 1,542 Likes: 34 Liked 138 Times in 51 Posts	Re: Index Change Rumor Even if you get a deal on a reasonably fast race car, you have to have the time & money to maintain that level. This becomes harder if indexes keep getting lowered. All that does is steepen the learning and financial curve needed, which can get discouraging to start or even maintain a racing program. Slower cars can still be competitive in regular eliminations by (not easily) achieving the current "minimum performance standard" (index), but they have to accept the odds in possible heads-up runs. There are several opportunities for "fast" cars - qualifying, class eliminations & regular random heads-up runs, without discouraging the slower cars. There has to be a balance for Sportsman racers because too much emphasis on having to be among the fastest brings it closer to a Pro-like atmosphere ($$$) and it's obvious that many can't maintain that level there even with sponsorship. Pro's barely have full fields. Luckily. Stock & SS still, usually, do. IMO National events are detrimental to Sportsman racing because of the low quotas and high investment in grading points. While a local racer may still not be able to afford to enter a "local" national, the "Baby Gators" trend may be helpful by providing for a greater number of cars to run heads-up for class. Sure, Stock & SS is "performance based". But even from the start when you could be competitive with a street legal car off the showroom, it was more creativity within the rules and driving skill, not necessarily money. They are, after all, "Sportsman" classes. Can't help but wonder if this is even a possible a rumor or someone just doing their annual "pot stirring" to see who they can get fired up. __________________ LOCOMOTION Racing

11-23-2019, 08:29 PM	#2
340Cuda VIP Member Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Tulsa, Oklahoma Posts: 1,675 Likes: 3,869 Liked 804 Times in 341 Posts	Re: Index Change Rumor While I can see the logic in lowering the indexes I don't see anyway it won't lower car count at the divisional races. I for one expect to be struggling next year to get an old SS/BS car to run the current index in the heat. Lower the index much and you will only see me at the local test and tune. Bill Lamb 4340

11-23-2019, 09:23 PM	#3
B Parker Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2009 Posts: 849 Likes: 980 Liked 2,336 Times in 464 Posts	Re: Index Change Rumor Nhra Last edited by B Parker; 11-23-2019 at 09:35 PM.

11-23-2019, 09:34 PM	#4
B Parker Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2009 Posts: 849 Likes: 980 Liked 2,336 Times in 464 Posts	Re: Index Change Rumor Billy have you noticed most of the new young blood that have started racing Stock are in new 100,000 plus cars. Or they are second or third generation class racers. I don't know anyone under thirty whose remotely interested in getting involved in our type of racing. They would be nuts to. Why spend the money it cost to buy or build a car. Then buy tow equipment. Tow how many hours away and pay the entrance fee and now need a place to stay for several days. With no chance of getting your money back. There is nothing cheap about our type of racing. If your going to start drag racing why wouldn't you go to the local track with a car pay 1/3 the entrance only race for the one day and have a chance to win just as much. With almost no set of rules other than safety. It's just not the same car generation we had years ago. The only new blood NHRA seems to be interested in getting involve in class racing are with the new cars. They changed the rules that helped bring the cost to where it is. Then chased most of the sponsor's off that paid money. And if that wasn't enough now let only 50 cars in each class at national events. Unless of course your in a new car that you can race in Factory Stock. Our class is a pain in the #ss for them. Our type of racing has a shelf life that we can agree on. And at my age I don't really care about what my car is worth 5 to ten years from now. Not sure how long that is but as you said look at the ages of us guys racing. But even more important look at the ages of the guys and girls involved in it from the NHRA side Do you see many young people getting involved in that side of it. The money is about the same as it was when I started racing stock in the seventies. What does 25k equal to money in the seventies? BP

11-23-2019, 10:36 PM	#5
MEXJOE Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: nhranumbers.com Posts: 875 Likes: 137 Liked 165 Times in 51 Posts	Re: Index Change Rumor How about this: Leave the indexes the way they are. And have NO AFS for any CLASS elimination or HEADS UP at all. (HOWEVER!). 1.20 under is MANDATORY complete tear down, at that race immediately at the conclusion of class eliminations. If found to be good then add a certain percentage hp to that combo? I this would kinda put all parties involved responsible and accountable. __________________ Glen DeMenge 1969 Camaro Stock Eliminator

11-25-2019, 08:12 AM	#9
Pat6868 Member Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 102 Likes: 6 Liked 88 Times in 28 Posts	Re: Index Change Rumor IMHO pure stock was a good class. Pretty much stock eliminator before the valve spring change. With adherence to those rules anybody can afford to race. And the challenge of building a good car within the rules was there for anyone. Hence the term "entry level". Super stock is there for anyone who wants to really push it. Stock today, one way or another, is what the racers asked for which brings us to today's reality of the class. Not exactly my idea of progress.