First VS Worst red light

[Jeff Stout]

Originally Posted by Speer Drag Racing

As I was reading through the responses, Jason's response is exactly what was going through my head! I will deal with the rules however they are decided. We all can't be as good as Jeff who has never been distracted by a slower car leaving! I had issues with that for years and have worked my butt off at becoming as focused as possible but it's still difficult. I say leave it as is!

I would never say I never had trouble with slow cars, but I worked it out and its a non issue. Im just Joe Average guy so I feel if I can do it anyone can do it if they practice and try.

[Lenny5160]

If you remove all thoughts about which car has an advantage in which situations (because that shouldn't be a factor), the current/historical red light rule is unlike any other rule in handicap racing. TruSTART makes it conform to the standard template.

If the violation is the same, the loser is who did it first. If they are different violations, the loser is who did the worst one. If it is the same rule violation but is measurable, the loser is who had the worst violation.

[sska3360]

I just want to say thank you to everybody who has expressed their opinion on this subject in a meaningful way, for or against TrueStart. My intention when creating this thread was to get the honest opinions of fellow class racers. Especially since a vast majority of the members on here have years, if not decades more experience than myself.

[Clint Rigby]

True Start!!!! Should have been this way all along.

Take breaking out!! Would it make since to say who ever breaks out first loses? No, same goes for Red lights IMO.

[wagonboy]

so..... here is my two cents on this topic. I race a slow car and a fast car.

To the group of people that say s/ss is a performance based class, I completely agree that it is performance based. However, your vehicle can be awesome performance wise, but the driver needs to be awesome performance wise as well. Your car alone does not win races in the format we currently race in. The performance of your car, coupled with good driving wins rounds and races.

I agree that the theme seems to be the faster car people seem to feel that they have earned the "advantage" to leave 2nd. Taking away the risk of loosing on the first red light.

Im not too concerned with what is considered "fair" in the whiny sense, Because driving is part of the equation in winning, I AM concerned with my competitors execution.

Lets use current super pro or delay box racing as a example. BOTH drivers stage and are set up for kill on the tree. The current system will have the driver with the slower car loose if they go red. BUT - BOTH competitors brought their skill and fought at the tree for a good light. No one slacked off - no one saw a red light and "relaxed".

Thats all Im asking for. No gimmies. In s/ss racing off the bottom bulb, the car leaving first has to hit the tree. The car leaving second from time to time gets to see his competitor go red- they did not even have to execute. They did not have to put it on the line and try to be a good driver.

That is not rewarding the better driver. It is only rewarding a quicker dial in. There are give and takes in either situation. Slow cars get a clean tree, that is nice. Less things to divert ones attention. So, I got a clean tree in my slow car..... now I get to watch the race happen behind me witch can be more difficult than watching it unfold in front of me. There's your trade off.

The performance based argument can be looked at another way as well.

If I have an "p" car that runs 1.20 under,and race a "B" car that runs .4 under. I still have to leave first, I have put more time, energy and effort (money) into making my car go further under the index, but I still have the disadvantage of going red first.

Because of the format we currently race in, I just want to know that the driver next to me has to cut a light under pressure,under the same circumstances that I ( the slow car) does.

Tru Start makes that possible. Imagine being at a sharpshooting range. Its you and some other guy in the final. You get 4 shots at a target, if you miss the target on one shot, you automatically loose. Your competitor does not even have to fire their gun. Some of you will say that the first guy blew it. Under those rules, we would never really know who the better marksman was on that day.Oh, and you went first cause his gun was " better" than yours.

Its a little more than 2 cents but being part of this sport my entire life, I like to see people win on their own merit and abilities, not on technicalities. Winning by your opponent going red is a technicality. And if you were dialed quicker- what did you actually do to win that round.

[Quo Pro Joe]

Originally Posted by wagonboy

so..... here is my two cents on this topic. I race a slow car and a fast car.

To the group of people that say s/ss is a performance based class, I completely agree that it is performance based. However, your vehicle can be awesome performance wise, but the driver needs to be awesome performance wise as well. Your car alone does not win races in the format we currently race in. The performance of your car, coupled with good driving wins rounds and races.

I agree that the theme seems to be the faster car people seem to feel that they have earned the "advantage" to leave 2nd. Taking away the risk of loosing on the first red light.

Im not too concerned with what is considered "fair" in the whiny sense, Because driving is part of the equation in winning, I AM concerned with my competitors execution.

Lets use current super pro or delay box racing as a example. BOTH drivers stage and are set up for kill on the tree. The current system will have the driver with the slower car loose if they go red. BUT - BOTH competitors brought their skill and fought at the tree for a good light. No one slacked off - no one saw a red light and "relaxed".

Thats all Im asking for. No gimmies. In s/ss racing off the bottom bulb, the car leaving first has to hit the tree. The car leaving second from time to time gets to see his competitor go red- they did not even have to execute. They did not have to put it on the line and try to be a good driver.

That is not rewarding the better driver. It is only rewarding a quicker dial in. There are give and takes in either situation. Slow cars get a clean tree, that is nice. Less things to divert ones attention. So, I got a clean tree in my slow car..... now I get to watch the race happen behind me witch can be more difficult than watching it unfold in front of me. There's your trade off.

The performance based argument can be looked at another way as well.

If I have an "p" car that runs 1.20 under,and race a "B" car that runs .4 under. I still have to leave first, I have put more time, energy and effort (money) into making my car go further under the index, but I still have the disadvantage of going red first.

Because of the format we currently race in, I just want to know that the driver next to me has to cut a light under pressure,under the same circumstances that I ( the slow car) does.

Tru Start makes that possible. Imagine being at a sharpshooting range. Its you and some other guy in the final. You get 4 shots at a target, if you miss the target on one shot, you automatically loose. Your competitor does not even have to fire their gun. Some of you will say that the first guy blew it. Under those rules, we would never really know who the better marksman was on that day.Oh, and you went first cause his gun was " better" than yours.

Its a little more than 2 cents but being part of this sport my entire life, I like to see people win on their own merit and abilities, not on technicalities. Winning by your opponent going red is a technicality. And if you were dialed quicker- what did you actually do to win that round.

So if your opponent redlights against you ,it is not a win,but a "technicality"?
Maybe there should be a rerun anytime somebody redlights?

[Mike Rietow]

Originally Posted by Quo Pro Joe

So if your opponent redlights against you ,it is not a win,but a "technicality"?
Maybe there should be a rerun anytime somebody redlights?

You can't win a race that never started. You can advance to the next round on a single.

To win you gotta beat someone in a race. A race starts when the clocks start in BOTH lanes.

If the racer in the other lane is tossed for doing a burnout passed the starting line, and you're given a single. You didn't win the race, you advanced to the next round on a technicality. It's the equivalent as if the racer in the other lane breaks in the water box, you're given an opponent broke single. Hypothetically, if either of these examples occurred in the final round, you'd win the event on an opponent broke single, or a technicality.

I could care less, BUT you want the rules to make sense.

If the rules don't make sense, they're arbitrary mutating into communism.

It's in everyone's best interests, the rules aren't arbitrary.