Lower Class Imput

LNorton · 04-02-2008, 02:40 AM

I can tell you from running a slow car you really have to have the tune up on point and pay attention to the details a lot. You CAN NOT race a slow car without a weather station. Each combo will react to air differently. Once you can figure out what factors make the most difference and how to dial correctly for the air, you can win a lot of rounds in a slow car.

Billy Nees · 04-02-2008, 08:31 AM

If you are going to race a lower classed stocker then you had better get it in your head right from the start that you are going to work at it. The tuneup has to be right for the conditions. You aren't going to just show up and race every day. You MUST have a weather station that you can trust. You WILL start looking at every flag on the grounds to get a feel for the wind (andf a wind gauge too). You have to heat them up and cool them down EXACTLY the same for each run. My best friends have watched me over the years and just laughed their tails off at what it takes to make them fairly consistant. They have tried to race my cars "their way" and had no successat all. If you want a "Bracket Stocker" then you had better build an A,B,C, car. That being said, a good lower classed car can win on a consistant track.

LNorton · 04-02-2008, 11:08 AM

Billy is dead on with the slow combination as normal. I can say that everything he said is right on. It took me 2 years to really figure out our combination and what makes it run the best. Details, details, details...

Dick Butler · 04-02-2008, 11:29 AM

Depends on how you define SLOW CAR... All the weather, wind etc is accentuated with a low powered big car. ANY car I ever had with a small carb was a problem. I had a 283 chevy II before gauges and it was rediculous. Cloud cover made it run faster to say nothing of a temp drop in the evening.. I had a 350 chevy wagon with a glide that was very consistent. A big inch motor with plenty of carb and compression seems to be the least variable. This is even track to track.
Should have been running when you dialed your car by 4:00 on day of eliminations and then raced at midnight. NO CHANGING THE DIAL......a lot of brake lights and sliding in the lights......

Curt Rees · 01-27-2021, 11:59 AM

It's taken me some time to "adjust" to owning/driving a slower car. Toward the end of 2020, things started to come around.

I will agree you have to really pay attention to the weather conditions. Pay attention to your weather station, and keep good logs. You also have to do your prep exactly the same each round. You need to learn to stage exactly the same also. Repetition! Repetition! Repetition! Lots of little things to do.

On the plus side, you are never going to spin. If the weather stays the same, you are going to be really consistent. Maintenance is minimal, just check everything as you would any car.

Top end, it's a whole different ball game judging the finish line and the on coming opponent that may be 60 mph faster then you. But, remember, they have to judge where you are at on the track also.

As far as the car, I have enjoyed running the V/SA more then anything I have ever had in the past. Looking forward to competing again in 2021.

#5458

Curt Rees

brian schuetta · 01-27-2021, 10:32 PM

I have raced slow cars ( 19-14 secs ) for a long time in brackets, back to 1985 when I was in college. I ran a slow car out of necessity because I had no money when I was in school. So here is my take away from all these years. One build a slow car. Two, they can run off with vary little variation in weather, track, etc. But, you can be successful beyond what you can even imagine with a slow car. Pay attention to everything. I can say that we had more consistent cars in Div 3 than Div 4, 7 & 5. IOW the heat seemed to be harder to deal with when dialing the cars. I could win in hotter climates but hot lapping became a problem, carb or EFI. I have always had what I considered good cooling routines between rounds. Reading the guages, mechanical always, didn't seem to give the whole story when dialing the car in hot regions so look at just about every variable, good weather station helps.
One thing about a slow car was that I easily got a lot of runs on it. Practice on Wednesday nights or whatever. I leave on the second bulb " on " with most of these cars, shallow staged .I know some people like deep staging but leave it alone. Unless its obvious you will win take the finish line don't hit the brakes before the finish line. I only turn my head 90 degrees most of the time, use the mirrors otherwise. Have better results taking the line than playing games. I love getting rental cars and entering them in bracket races. Two, three time runs and race. If you do that you'll know what you're getting into. Just remember all rental cars are not created equal, refer to Brent on that. With the way things are go with the slow car.
I'm actually back in Div 3 righrt now and hope to be out in April with something.

GTX JOHN · 01-28-2021, 01:15 AM

When my boy was a teenage be races a N/O/P Aspen 318 Wagon.

He had top 5 finishes in Div 7 and went to the All Stars.

I got to the finals in Sonoma two years ago in the wagon and

my driving skills have diminished greatly last 5 years.

We watch the Weather Station /Wind/ Track conditions closely

in ALL our Door cars. Jon's Dragster =Not as much.

As long as our slow cars have a good size Four Barrel carb - They

seem to vary quite a bit less. The little Two Barrels drive my nuts!

For us = Our Fast or Slow Stockers both win races!

Ed Fernandez · 04-02-2008, 04:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Billy Nees

If you are going to race a lower classed stocker then you had better get it in your head right from the start that you are going to work at it. The tuneup has to be right for the conditions. You aren't going to just show up and race every day. You MUST have a weather station that you can trust. You WILL start looking at every flag on the grounds to get a feel for the wind (andf a wind gauge too). You have to heat them up and cool them down EXACTLY the same for each run. My best friends have watched me over the years and just laughed their tails off at what it takes to make them fairly consistant. They have tried to race my cars "their way" and had no successat all. If you want a "Bracket Stocker" then you had better build an A,B,C, car. That being said, a good lower classed car can win on a consistant track.

Hey old man, you forgot to mention the use of an open face helmet.It's hard to crank your head 180 degrees with a full face.After 9 years with my car I have it down fairly well,but it still throws you a curve when you least expect it,like the first run of the day.
You going to Atco old man?When will we be blessed with the presence of the Don?

Ed

Chris Hill · 04-02-2008, 05:32 PM

If it were my money, I would not build a lower class car.

The combination I've run mostly is a 86 model C-10 pick-up wiht a 4.3L v-6. No matter what I/we tried, the truck was very inconsistent. If somebody farted in the stands, it would pick-up a tenth. It was VERY affected by the wind. And this combination has a big carb (800 Q-jet), decent cam (0.430 lift), and 10.5:1 compression, but were only making high 200 to low 300 hp range due to the lack of displacement.

We've used the same techniches for running a A/B/C classed car, and it was very consistent provided the track was ok.

On the plus side of racing the truck, it's easy to see out the rear window. I can't think of any other vehicle that has beter visiblity for being caught.

Ron Ortiz · 04-02-2008, 07:04 PM

Chris Hill, a station wagon has alot of windows too. Problem is you can see the people in the stands as well when going slow.

House of Darts, when I initially had my car and could just barely run the index, it was deadly consistent. The faster I made it go over the years, the more inconsistent it got. Question is, should I try to go slower for the consistent aspect of things, or should I invest more money to go faster and be inconsistent.

Ron Ortiz
U/SA which way did he go, which way did he go.

04-02-2008, 02:40 AM	#1
LNorton Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: RacerTees.com Posts: 505 Likes: 0 Liked 4 Times in 2 Posts	Re: Lower Class Imput I can tell you from running a slow car you really have to have the tune up on point and pay attention to the details a lot. You CAN NOT race a slow car without a weather station. Each combo will react to air differently. Once you can figure out what factors make the most difference and how to dial correctly for the air, you can win a lot of rounds in a slow car. __________________ Lee Norton - N229 STK IHRA H/FIA - NHRA O/SA RacerTees.com

04-02-2008, 08:31 AM	#2
Billy Nees VIP Member Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: On a hilltop in Pa. Posts: 4,504 Likes: 3,606 Liked 7,814 Times in 1,748 Posts	Re: Lower Class Imput If you are going to race a lower classed stocker then you had better get it in your head right from the start that you are going to work at it. The tuneup has to be right for the conditions. You aren't going to just show up and race every day. You MUST have a weather station that you can trust. You WILL start looking at every flag on the grounds to get a feel for the wind (andf a wind gauge too). You have to heat them up and cool them down EXACTLY the same for each run. My best friends have watched me over the years and just laughed their tails off at what it takes to make them fairly consistant. They have tried to race my cars "their way" and had no successat all. If you want a "Bracket Stocker" then you had better build an A,B,C, car. That being said, a good lower classed car can win on a consistant track. __________________ Billy Nees 1188 STK, SS I'm not spending 100K to win 2K

04-02-2008, 11:08 AM	#3
LNorton Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: RacerTees.com Posts: 505 Likes: 0 Liked 4 Times in 2 Posts	Re: Lower Class Imput Billy is dead on with the slow combination as normal. I can say that everything he said is right on. It took me 2 years to really figure out our combination and what makes it run the best. Details, details, details... __________________ Lee Norton - N229 STK IHRA H/FIA - NHRA O/SA RacerTees.com

04-02-2008, 11:29 AM	#4
Dick Butler VIP Member Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Richmond Indiana Posts: 1,196 Likes: 5 Liked 32 Times in 19 Posts	Re: Lower Class Imput Depends on how you define SLOW CAR... All the weather, wind etc is accentuated with a low powered big car. ANY car I ever had with a small carb was a problem. I had a 283 chevy II before gauges and it was rediculous. Cloud cover made it run faster to say nothing of a temp drop in the evening.. I had a 350 chevy wagon with a glide that was very consistent. A big inch motor with plenty of carb and compression seems to be the least variable. This is even track to track. Should have been running when you dialed your car by 4:00 on day of eliminations and then raced at midnight. NO CHANGING THE DIAL......a lot of brake lights and sliding in the lights......

01-27-2021, 10:32 PM	#6
brian schuetta Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: san antonio tx Posts: 259 Likes: 5 Liked 28 Times in 15 Posts	Re: Lower Class Imput I have raced slow cars ( 19-14 secs ) for a long time in brackets, back to 1985 when I was in college. I ran a slow car out of necessity because I had no money when I was in school. So here is my take away from all these years. One build a slow car. Two, they can run off with vary little variation in weather, track, etc. But, you can be successful beyond what you can even imagine with a slow car. Pay attention to everything. I can say that we had more consistent cars in Div 3 than Div 4, 7 & 5. IOW the heat seemed to be harder to deal with when dialing the cars. I could win in hotter climates but hot lapping became a problem, carb or EFI. I have always had what I considered good cooling routines between rounds. Reading the guages, mechanical always, didn't seem to give the whole story when dialing the car in hot regions so look at just about every variable, good weather station helps. One thing about a slow car was that I easily got a lot of runs on it. Practice on Wednesday nights or whatever. I leave on the second bulb " on " with most of these cars, shallow staged .I know some people like deep staging but leave it alone. Unless its obvious you will win take the finish line don't hit the brakes before the finish line. I only turn my head 90 degrees most of the time, use the mirrors otherwise. Have better results taking the line than playing games. I love getting rental cars and entering them in bracket races. Two, three time runs and race. If you do that you'll know what you're getting into. Just remember all rental cars are not created equal, refer to Brent on that. With the way things are go with the slow car. I'm actually back in Div 3 righrt now and hope to be out in April with something.

01-27-2021, 11:59 AM	#5
Curt Rees Member Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Ft. Pierre, SD Posts: 357 Likes: 426 Liked 251 Times in 51 Posts	Re: Lower Class Imput It's taken me some time to "adjust" to owning/driving a slower car. Toward the end of 2020, things started to come around. I will agree you have to really pay attention to the weather conditions. Pay attention to your weather station, and keep good logs. You also have to do your prep exactly the same each round. You need to learn to stage exactly the same also. Repetition! Repetition! Repetition! Lots of little things to do. On the plus side, you are never going to spin. If the weather stays the same, you are going to be really consistent. Maintenance is minimal, just check everything as you would any car. Top end, it's a whole different ball game judging the finish line and the on coming opponent that may be 60 mph faster then you. But, remember, they have to judge where you are at on the track also. As far as the car, I have enjoyed running the V/SA more then anything I have ever had in the past. Looking forward to competing again in 2021. #5458 Curt Rees __________________ Curt Rees 5457 SS

01-28-2021, 01:15 AM	#7
GTX JOHN VIP Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Boulder City, Nevada 89005 Posts: 2,736 Likes: 2,808 Liked 2,488 Times in 698 Posts	Re: Lower Class Imput When my boy was a teenage be races a N/O/P Aspen 318 Wagon. He had top 5 finishes in Div 7 and went to the All Stars. I got to the finals in Sonoma two years ago in the wagon and my driving skills have diminished greatly last 5 years. We watch the Weather Station /Wind/ Track conditions closely in ALL our Door cars. Jon's Dragster =Not as much. As long as our slow cars have a good size Four Barrel carb - They seem to vary quite a bit less. The little Two Barrels drive my nuts! For us = Our Fast or Slow Stockers both win races! __________________ John Irving 741 Stock 741 Super Stock Last edited by GTX JOHN; 01-28-2021 at 01:29 AM.

04-02-2008, 05:32 PM	#9
Chris Hill Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2002 Posts: 655 Likes: 8 Liked 244 Times in 26 Posts	Re: Lower Class Imput If it were my money, I would not build a lower class car. The combination I've run mostly is a 86 model C-10 pick-up wiht a 4.3L v-6. No matter what I/we tried, the truck was very inconsistent. If somebody farted in the stands, it would pick-up a tenth. It was VERY affected by the wind. And this combination has a big carb (800 Q-jet), decent cam (0.430 lift), and 10.5:1 compression, but were only making high 200 to low 300 hp range due to the lack of displacement. We've used the same techniches for running a A/B/C classed car, and it was very consistent provided the track was ok. On the plus side of racing the truck, it's easy to see out the rear window. I can't think of any other vehicle that has beter visiblity for being caught. __________________ Chris Hill https://ihmusedparts.com Last edited by Chris Hill; 04-02-2008 at 05:34 PM. Reason: Added content

04-02-2008, 07:04 PM	#10
Ron Ortiz Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Englewood, Florida Posts: 989 Likes: 35 Liked 317 Times in 103 Posts	Re: Lower Class Imput Chris Hill, a station wagon has alot of windows too. Problem is you can see the people in the stands as well when going slow. House of Darts, when I initially had my car and could just barely run the index, it was deadly consistent. The faster I made it go over the years, the more inconsistent it got. Question is, should I try to go slower for the consistent aspect of things, or should I invest more money to go faster and be inconsistent. Ron Ortiz U/SA which way did he go, which way did he go. __________________ Ron Ortiz 2102 STK