Stocker motor question

oldskool · 08-19-2021, 11:29 PM

"...If you have more up to date information..."

No, I don't personally have any info.

But, I have noticed that from time to time I have found that some info for Pontiac engines is not complete. It's quite possible, & even very probable that many of the less popular combinations are just not updated as often, as the very popular Chevy, Ford, & Mopar combos are.

I'm sure you are familiar with Adam Strang & Norman Warling's combos, from the PY forum. If you'll remember, Adam got a CP forged piston approved for the '68 Pontiac 350HO. For many months AFTER it was approved & had an NHRA legal part number, it was not listed on CRI. I see that it is, now. They're also now listed for all the other 350 engines up thru '73, whereas, up until recently the only 350 pistons listed were TRW L2339. I haven't checked on 'em recently, so I don't know EXACTLY when they were listed on CRI.

http://www.classracerinfo.com/Engine...8&MAKE=Pontiac

As you know, Norman tried a 421SD engine in his '62 Cat. He was trying to find an original piston to copy, in order to have a legal forged piston made & approved.

I don't know what pistons he used. But, he posted that he did indeed install & run the 421SD engine. So he used some pistons of some sort.

Just looked up the '62 421SD engine on CRI. There are no piston specs listed at all, & no legal piston number shown. Also, the body application page won't work. Just shows "Error" notices.

http://www.classracerinfo.com/Engine...6&MAKE=Pontiac

I don't have the correct info. Don't know for sure who does. Don't know if the info can be found on some NHRA site, or not.

Bottom line is that I stand by my statement that not all info is always completely up date. Not complaining or blaming anyone. Just making a casual observation. I don't have a dog in the hunt.

Stan Weiss · 08-19-2021, 11:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oldskool

"...If you have more up to date information..."

No, I don't personally have any info.

But, I have noticed that from time to time I have found that some info for Pontiac engines is not complete. It's quite possible, & even very probable that many of the less popular combinations are just not updated as often, as the very popular Chevy, Ford, & Mopar combos are.

I'm sure you are familiar with Adam Strang & Norman Warling's combos, from the PY forum. If you'll remember, Adam got a CP forged piston approved for the '68 Pontiac 350HO. For many months AFTER it was approved & had an NHRA legal part number, it was not listed on CRI. I see that it is, now. They're also now listed for all the other 350 engines up thru '73, whereas, up until recently the only 350 pistons listed were TRW L2339. I haven't checked on 'em recently, so I don't know EXACTLY when they were listed on CRI.

http://www.classracerinfo.com/Engine...8&MAKE=Pontiac

As you know, Norman tried a 421SD engine in his '62 Cat. He was trying to find an original piston to copy, in order to have a legal forged piston made & approved.

I don't know what pistons he used. But, he posted that he did indeed install & run the 421SD engine. So he used some pistons of some sort.

Just looked up the '62 421SD engine on CRI. There are no piston specs listed at all, & no legal piston number shown. Also, the body application page won't work. Just shows "Error" notices.

http://www.classracerinfo.com/Engine...6&MAKE=Pontiac

I don't have the correct info. Don't know for sure who does. Don't know if the info can be found on some NHRA site, or not.

Bottom line is that I stand by my statement that not all info is always completely up date. Not complaining or blaming anyone. Just making a casual observation. I don't have a dog in the hunt.

That is the kind of thing I was talking about. You should have contacted Dwight and given him the information about that piston.

Stan

Pat6868 · 08-20-2021, 07:19 AM

Stock eliminator champ runs a Malibu wagon, 305, Downings wagon ran very strong, 305 also.

oldskool · 08-20-2021, 10:22 AM

"...You should have contacted Dwight and given him the information about that piston..."

That's ridiculous.

I haven't owned a Stocker since 1975. Why should I report specs I'm not sure of, for someone else's combo ? For example: Adam posted the part number & pics for his CP 350 Pontiac piston, on a Pontiac forum. So, what was I supposed to do, tell Dwight he needs to update his info because of something I read on a car forum ?

You can do that sort of stuff, if you want to. I've already learned that you & I have different opinions about lots of stuff. So, I'll try not to reply to any more of your posts.

That's all I'll say about it.

Billy Nees · 08-20-2021, 11:37 AM

Ya know, Dwight's sight is a great asset to the S/SS family BUT it's not the final say AND neither is NHRA RACER with all of it's updates and revisions.
IF you're combo isn't correct in the OFFICIAL NHRA Classification Guide AND the OFFICIAL NHRA Blueprint Specs then it's up to YOU the Racer running the combo to bring it to an NHRA Official's attention!
If you show up at an NHRA event, the Tech people are required to follow what is written in the most current Guide and Specs. Period.
Oh and BTW, check out your competitor's combos too!
I've been burned by this (at Indy!) and so have a couple of other Racers that I know.

Dwight Southerland · 08-20-2021, 01:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Billy Nees

Ya know, Dwight's sight is a great asset to the S/SS family BUT it's not the final say AND neither is NHRA RACER with all of it's updates and revisions.
IF you're combo isn't correct in the OFFICIAL NHRA Classification Guide AND the OFFICIAL NHRA Blueprint Specs then it's up to YOU the Racer running the combo to bring it to an NHRA Official's attention!
If you show up at an NHRA event, the Tech people are required to follow what is written in the most current Guide and Specs. Period.
.

This is an important understanding for every Stock/SS racer to grasp and retain. My website is intended to make determining classifications easy and to assimilate related data in one place to make it easy for the racer. If you rely on the NHRA information to wade through the process of classification, legal specifications, and related accepted parts for an engine/car combination, you will grow weary and confused. Quite frankly, it is such a complicated process, many seasoned racers know only the data relevant to their one combination and could not start from scratch with a different combination and get it right. Plus the time to do that is laboring.

That being said, the backbone of the usefulness of my website is the exact NHRA data they publish. I have no inside track to NHRA. They do not communicate with me about anything, so the updates I provide to you all is by my constantly monitoring their websites looking for changes. That is a commitment of my time that you all do not have any concept.

Also, there are unspoken "rules" about how to interpret and use the data that I have only garnered from years of conversations, inquiries, and pursuit of information and understanding. Old timers are familiar with the "secret" or "unstated" rulebook that tech officials carried in their heads. All that is reflected in the data on my website.

Referencing Oldskool's example of the 1962 SD 421 Pontiac pistons, here is an example of how the data is interpreted. The Accepted Piston list for Pontiac engines lists a Ross piston, pn 145415, as a replacement for "421 62-66 All Flat Top". That means that piston can be used in all 1962-1966 Pontiac 421 engines where the "Piston Type" specification in the NHRA Tech Specs is "Flat Top". However, the "Piston Type" specification for the 1962 Pontiac 421-405 is blank, indicating that there is no official specification. Therefore, according to NHRA information, that replacement piston cannot be used in that engine. Maybe Norman has a letter from NHRA in his possession that validates the use of that piston in the 1962 421SD, but it has not been published on any NHRA website and is not contained in any published NHRA printed material that I know. Consequently, for the sake of accuracy, I do not attach that piston spec to the '62 421 SD. (Part of the "unstated" rulebook?)

Billy's recommendation is exactly correct. If you know that the data for your combination is not correct, and you have documentation that has the correct specifications, please contact NHRA tech to get the public spec corrected.

08-19-2021, 11:29 PM	#1
oldskool VIP Member Join Date: Dec 2014 Location: The Land of Bayous, Boudin & Crawfish Posts: 1,668 Likes: 223 Liked 747 Times in 362 Posts	Re: Stocker motor question "...If you have more up to date information..." No, I don't personally have any info. But, I have noticed that from time to time I have found that some info for Pontiac engines is not complete. It's quite possible, & even very probable that many of the less popular combinations are just not updated as often, as the very popular Chevy, Ford, & Mopar combos are. I'm sure you are familiar with Adam Strang & Norman Warling's combos, from the PY forum. If you'll remember, Adam got a CP forged piston approved for the '68 Pontiac 350HO. For many months AFTER it was approved & had an NHRA legal part number, it was not listed on CRI. I see that it is, now. They're also now listed for all the other 350 engines up thru '73, whereas, up until recently the only 350 pistons listed were TRW L2339. I haven't checked on 'em recently, so I don't know EXACTLY when they were listed on CRI. http://www.classracerinfo.com/Engine...8&MAKE=Pontiac As you know, Norman tried a 421SD engine in his '62 Cat. He was trying to find an original piston to copy, in order to have a legal forged piston made & approved. I don't know what pistons he used. But, he posted that he did indeed install & run the 421SD engine. So he used some pistons of some sort. Just looked up the '62 421SD engine on CRI. There are no piston specs listed at all, & no legal piston number shown. Also, the body application page won't work. Just shows "Error" notices. http://www.classracerinfo.com/Engine...6&MAKE=Pontiac I don't have the correct info. Don't know for sure who does. Don't know if the info can be found on some NHRA site, or not. Bottom line is that I stand by my statement that not all info is always completely up date. Not complaining or blaming anyone. Just making a casual observation. I don't have a dog in the hunt. Last edited by oldskool; 08-19-2021 at 11:45 PM.

08-20-2021, 07:19 AM	#3
Pat6868 Member Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 102 Likes: 6 Liked 87 Times in 28 Posts	Re: Stocker motor question Stock eliminator champ runs a Malibu wagon, 305, Downings wagon ran very strong, 305 also.

08-20-2021, 10:22 AM	#4
oldskool VIP Member Join Date: Dec 2014 Location: The Land of Bayous, Boudin & Crawfish Posts: 1,668 Likes: 223 Liked 747 Times in 362 Posts	Re: Stocker motor question "...You should have contacted Dwight and given him the information about that piston..." That's ridiculous. I haven't owned a Stocker since 1975. Why should I report specs I'm not sure of, for someone else's combo ? For example: Adam posted the part number & pics for his CP 350 Pontiac piston, on a Pontiac forum. So, what was I supposed to do, tell Dwight he needs to update his info because of something I read on a car forum ? You can do that sort of stuff, if you want to. I've already learned that you & I have different opinions about lots of stuff. So, I'll try not to reply to any more of your posts. That's all I'll say about it.

08-20-2021, 11:37 AM	#5
Billy Nees VIP Member Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: On a hilltop in Pa. Posts: 4,481 Likes: 3,581 Liked 7,659 Times in 1,726 Posts	Re: Stocker motor question Ya know, Dwight's sight is a great asset to the S/SS family BUT it's not the final say AND neither is NHRA RACER with all of it's updates and revisions. IF you're combo isn't correct in the OFFICIAL NHRA Classification Guide AND the OFFICIAL NHRA Blueprint Specs then it's up to YOU the Racer running the combo to bring it to an NHRA Official's attention! If you show up at an NHRA event, the Tech people are required to follow what is written in the most current Guide and Specs. Period. Oh and BTW, check out your competitor's combos too! I've been burned by this (at Indy!) and so have a couple of other Racers that I know. __________________ Billy Nees 1188 STK, SS I'm not spending 100K to win 2K