1968 Pontiac GTO

[oldskool]

"...arent the GTO and Firebird identical engines then?"

Yes. There are several '68 & '69 400 D-port engines that are basically the same, whether in a Bird or a Goat.

The cams may be SLIGHTLY different. But with the unlimited duration & valve spring pressures, those slight cam differences won't really make a difference.

Here's the '68 330hp 400ci Bird engine specs. Current NHRA factor is 333hp. Came down from 338, the season before.

http://www.classracerinfo.com/Engine...9&MAKE=Pontiac

1968 350hp 400ci GTO engine specs. NHRA = 325hp. This was set in 2001. Don't know when it came down.

http://www.classracerinfo.com/Engine...5&MAKE=Pontiac

'69 330hp 400ci Bird. NHRA = 345. Was raised to this in '14. The specs look just like the '68 engines, to me. So, why is the '69 NHRA factor so high ? Guessing it's because the one quick '69 Bird Stocker was running so quick. That car belongs to long time Pontiac racer John Schloe, in div 7.

http://www.classracerinfo.com/Engine...9&MAKE=Pontiac

'69 350hp 400 GTO. NHRA = 325hp. The last change is dated 1/1/27. So I don't know when the change was made, nor when it was 1st reduced from the 350hp rating it had back in '75. One thing is for sure. At the current NHRA factors, a '69 GTO with the base 400 engine should be more competitive than a '69 Bird with the base 400 engine.

http://www.classracerinfo.com/Engine...4&MAKE=Pontiac

'70 330hp 400 Bird. NHRA = 350hp. Specs look real similar to the '68 & '69 engines. Don't look to have been any hp factor changes in recent years.

http://www.classracerinfo.com/Engine...5&MAKE=Pontiac

'70 350hp 400 GTO. NHRA = 350hp. Can't see any reason for the '70 engines to be rated higher than the '68 or '69 engines.

http://www.classracerinfo.com/Engine...8&MAKE=Pontiac

I CAN see that maybe some allowance should be made for a body which is more aerodynamic. For example: A 1st gen Bird body should offer less wind resistance than a '68-'70 GTO body. But, using the '69's for an example, I don't think the Bird should get a 20hp penalty. Maybe 5hp, 10 max. That would put the '69 Bird more in line with the '68 Bird.

Under NHRA rules, cars are penalized for going too quick. Lots of guys would probably go slower, if they had it all to do over again. Many have made their combo much less competitive, because of going too quick. Sandbagging has become a major aspect of Stock/SS racing. It's just part of the game, if you wanna protect your combo, in order to avoid a hit.

As it stands now, looks like the '68 & '69 Goats, with the base D-port 400, would be just as competitive as a 330hp '68 Bird. But, I don't know of a single one still active, unless someone is racing the former Adam Strang '68 Goat. I assume Tim Gillespie still has his '68, but don't race it anymore.

[Cstockbird]

Not sure if it’s the same for 68 RAII but it was for 69 RAIV that the power to weight ratio dictated the HP be less for firebird which was taken care of mainly with the different throttle linkage bracket.

This thread needs pictures something awful.

[Stan Weiss]

Originally Posted by Cstockbird

Not sure if it’s the same for 68 RAII but it was for 69 RAIV that the power to weight ratio dictated the HP be less for firebird which was taken care of mainly with the different throttle linkage bracket.

This thread needs pictures something awful.

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Actually it needs more tech.


Stan

[oldskool]

Originally Posted by Cstockbird

Not sure if it’s the same for 68 RAII but it was for 69 RAIV that the power to weight ratio dictated the HP be less for firebird which was taken care of mainly with the different throttle linkage bracket.

This thread needs pictures something awful.

"... with the different throttle linkage bracket..."

Yeah, those Q-jets were rigged up so they would not open all the way. But, that was easily fixed by hot rodders & racers.

On a Pontiac forum, I've been scolded for not posting pics to go along with what I was saying. I suppose that's one reason why I have collected so many Pontiac pics on my computer.

I think MOST guys like pics. At least I usually see several guys thanking the guys who post pics from races.

I don't care about MOST of the pics. But, I always like to see pics of the few Pontiac powered cars that are still active.

I assume that Adam Strang & Tim Gillespie have driven the quickest '68 GTO Stockers, ever. Tim Made the field at Indy a few times. He was #83 in 2006, @ .981 under. Adam was #105 on that list, but had already switched over to his '68 Bird. Tim also later switched over to a '68 Bird. Julie Biermann has been driving it for the last few years. It now runs high 10's.

https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r2006#indextop

Don't know the best time for either of the '68 Goats. But here's a 2004 race where Adam ran more than a sec under. He ran it mostly as a stick car. Won class at some races.

https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r2004#indextop