Combined Grade Points of National Event Entry

[TBear5033]

As a recent double entry racer at NHRA events, I'm learning some interesting things about how grade points for entry into National Events work that I did not know previously. I have talked with NHRA's competition department who gave me their explanation of what they combine and why and then how you can use your combined points when it comes time to enter a National Event.

The explanation I got was kind of long and complicated, but here's the summary of what I walked away with:

1. They take your last year or last 3 year average grade points earned in a category whichever is higher - that's have many you have to use to enter that same category. If you ran in any additional categories, you earn grade points in this manner for each separate class you ran - Divisional and National Opens only of course.
2. To get to a combined grade point, they take only last year's earned points and add them together. This means you could have fewer combined points than you show if you manually add your category points together.
3. When you want to enter a National Event, if you do not have enough grade points earned in the class you are trying to enter, the system will give you an option to use your combined grade point total. If you say "yes" to the prompt, you will be entered in that class and now you have zero grade points available to use for a second class you would like to race at the same event.

Here's an example:
Stock grade points 12
Super Stock grade points 3
Combined grade points 14

Option 1
Enter STK when a race opens - no issues have 8 grade points
Enter SS - have to wait until grade 3 is available

Option 2
Enter SS when race opens - "Do you want to use combined grade points" - Yes = entered
Enter Stk - have to wait until grade 0 is available.

My question to this group - is this inline with why NHRA uses grades points which is to reward racers that support Divisional and National Opens?

Folks - I'm going to respectfully ask that comments to this thread stay on topic and respectful. I would like to start a dialogue and gauge the racers options who are affected by this situation in order to determine if there is support to discuss it further with NHRA. Thanks in advance.

Rachelle Thibert
T-Bear Racing
Stk 5033 K/SA
SS 5033 GT/M

[gumple]

This does seem to be different from the way it was explained to me several years ago. I wanted to enter Stock at a race and was not paying attention to the entry dates and it filled before I could enter. But Super Stock was still open. I had 10 grade points in Stock and was told by my DD that I could use the points (6) to enter Super Stock and I would have 4 left for Stock. However, the catch was that I could only use those 6 points for Super Stock for the remainder of the season. I would call your DD and go over this with him.

[Larry Hill]

Why would the combined grade points of your example be 14 instead of the total of 12+3=15?

We will try to run two cars this year at a few races.

[Lenny5160]

Originally Posted by gumple

This does seem to be different from the way it was explained to me several years ago. I wanted to enter Stock at a race and was not paying attention to the entry dates and it filled before I could enter. But Super Stock was still open. I had 10 grade points in Stock and was told by my DD that I could use the points (6) to enter Super Stock and I would have 4 left for Stock. However, the catch was that I could only use those 6 points for Super Stock for the remainder of the season. I would call your DD and go over this with him.

There are very few scenarios where the category being entered at a national needs to match the category the grade points were earned in. You have 10 points in a single category and can't split those up to enter, say, two cars at Grade 5. Once you enter a car, you don't have any more grade points.

Or in the original post example, you have 12 points and you have 3 points. You can combine them to have 15 grade points for a single entry, but you can't make any other two-car combinations that total 15 other than the original 12 and 3, as they were earned.

[gumple]

Originally Posted by Lenny5160

There are very few scenarios where the category being entered at a national needs to match the category the grade points were earned in. You have 10 points in a single category and can't split those up to enter, say, two cars at Grade 5. Once you enter a car, you don't have any more grade points.

Or in the original post example, you have 12 points and you have 3 points. You can combine them to have 15 grade points for a single entry, but you can't make any other two-car combinations that total 15 other than the original 12 and 3, as they were earned.

I wound up bailing on the race all together but this is not what I was told. Are you saying that a racer gets one shot to use their grade points and that's it for the season?

edit: After thinking about your post, it appears that you are saying that the racer loses all the grade points that were not used to enter a specific race. When did this become a rule or is up to DD interpretations?

[tstickff]

Rachel, all that you posted in your original post is correct, you cannot enter above your grade limit in a certain class, I learned about this a few years ago when I started double entering races also.

Seeing how you have all the information correct what is left for dialogue? If your trying to make sense of what NHRA does or doesn’t do and why they do what they do I’m afraid you will have to drop the “being respectful” comment lol

Tim Stickles
1911 M/SA

[TBear5033]

Originally Posted by gumple

This does seem to be different from the way it was explained to me several years ago. I wanted to enter Stock at a race and was not paying attention to the entry dates and it filled before I could enter. But Super Stock was still open. I had 10 grade points in Stock and was told by my DD that I could use the points (6) to enter Super Stock and I would have 4 left for Stock. However, the catch was that I could only use those 6 points for Super Stock for the remainder of the season. I would call your DD and go over this with him.

I have talked to the DD about this and am confident that I understand how the system works currently. It does not include the limitation that you describe. Although how I've outlined it is correct, there are multiple nuances that would be different when the circumstances are different. He agreed that the system doesn't really fit the philosophy of why they use grade points for prioritizing entries but that they have system limitations that doesn't allow them to administer the system in better alignment.

My DD also said that if there is enough feedback from racers to change how this systems works, then they would consider changing it - that's what I'm trying to gather/understand from this group.

[TBear5033]

Originally Posted by Larry Hill

Why would the combined grade points of your example be 14 instead of the total of 12+3=15?

We will try to run two cars this year at a few races.

Great question Larry - the math I learned in school suggested that I should have 15 total. However, the logic built into the system is that for each individual class, they use the bigger of last year or your 3 year average. The numbers I used in my original post are my actual numbers. I ran 11 events last year but more than that in 2020 thanks to lots of double Divisional so they use the 3 year average. However, your combined points is only looking at what you did in the previous year.

[TBear5033]

Originally Posted by tstickff

Rachel, all that you posted in your original post is correct, you cannot enter above your grade limit in a certain class, I learned about this a few years ago when I started double entering races also.

Seeing how you have all the information correct what is left for dialogue? If your trying to make sense of what NHRA does or doesn’t do and why they do what they do I’m afraid you will have to drop the “being respectful” comment lol

Tim Stickles
1911 M/SA

Thanks for the comments Tim - and no, I'm not trying to make sense out what or why NHRA does/doesn't do what they do. I don't have that kind of time to waste...

It was suggested to me however that if there is feedback and input from racers that we would like this changed, then they would look at their system limitations and 'perhaps' try to address them. I'm just trying to gather some input from this group in order to go back to the DD and see what happens.

[J.R. Haddad]

A little off topic, but if I had 9 grade points & you had 8 grade points, do I
get to enter before you? Thanks.

J.R.