Access to AMA Shipping Weights?

[KRatcliff]

Originally Posted by Bryan Worner

This is a real easy one to explain so I’ll tackle it! Firebird can run SS/HA, Camaro can’t! So when they race each other, let’s say in the final of a national event, or a must win round in a points race, they won’t race heads up! Therefore, neither will have to lean on their combo, which is the same in both cars, to secure that all important round win! So they just race each other in bracket mode and continue on with the same factor. Allen, is that a good explanation???

I have thought a little more about your explanation and tying it to Allen's comment. I think your explanation is valid, but narrow in the scope that you are comparing the same engine combination in a Firebird vs. a Camaro that are not running in the same class due to weight breaks. Thus eliminating a head's up situation, but I didn't read Allen's question as being that narrow.

Maybe he meant it to be as such, but he simply said "it helps the entire LT1 combo avoid heads-up runs and HP adjustments" which I contend that is not true. The head's up runs are not limited to the same combo they could be any combination in your respective class as you know. That was why I answered that the more classes a LT1 can compete in the greater odds of a heads up run with one of the other combos and it would affect the entire LT1 family in both the Firebirds and Camaros if triggers are hit or the average is affected.

[Allen Wilson III]

Originally Posted by KRatcliff

I have thought a little more about your explanation and tying it to Allen's comment. I think your explanation is valid, but narrow in the scope that you are comparing the same engine combination in a Firebird vs. a Camaro that are not running in the same class due to weight breaks. Thus eliminating a head's up situation, but I didn't read Allen's question as being that narrow.

Maybe he meant it to be as such, but he simply said "it helps the entire LT1 combo avoid heads-up runs and HP adjustments" which I contend that is not true. The head's up runs are not limited to the same combo they could be any combination in your respective class as you know. That was why I answered that the more classes a LT1 can compete in the greater odds of a heads up run with one of the other combos and it would affect the entire LT1 family in both the Firebirds and Camaros if triggers are hit or the average is affected.

You’re right. Bryan said it much better than I. It spreads the combo out further than it should and prevents some of the obviously fast cars from ever having to run each other.

[GUMP]

Originally Posted by SS/GSI

SIDE NOTE: The 2015 Camaro 376ci(which runs A, B and C/SA)MVMA Shipping Weights is 3946#'s NOT 3320#'s!!!

This argument goes back to 2009 when I purchased one of the very first BIW Camaros. There was some heated discussion about the shipping weight. The gentleman at Chevrolet would not listen and submitted the 2010 Camaro at around 3,800 lbs. without driver.

At that time, nobody had really done anything with one of these cars. Since I knew that Chevrolet wanted to build the COPO, I tried to get them to work with me to come up with an NHRA accepted rear suspension. My emails went unanswered.

In 2011 I purchased a zero option 1 SS Camaro. It weighed around 3600 lbs. minus driver. At the PRI Show I crawled under the COPO and measured the rear suspension. I then went to Bruce at NHRA and worked with him to make it legal for the 2010 Camaro. I went home and built it. All the time sharing with Bruce.

Before I got the car finished the whole COPO thing happened...

In 2015 I ordered two new 2016 cars. I decided to park the 2012 because of it's unique history. That left the 2014. I reached out to Chevrolet about putting all the Camaros in the guide. They settled on the 2015.

With all of the knowledge gained in those years it was obvious that a 2015 Camaro built within the current rules for Stock Eliminator would weigh around 2,800 lbs without driver. That's 1,100 lbs. from what you want and 800 lbs. from the 2012 car that I owned!! The decision was made to keep the ballast to no more than 500 lbs.

That is the way the 2015 Camaro got to that weight.

If the NHRA wants new cars in the Class guide, they have to make a weight concession for all of the stuff that can legally be removed.

OK, that's my version of history. One day I'll share my story on the LS3 engine specs......

[Billy Nees]

Originally Posted by GUMP

With all of the knowledge gained in those years it was obvious that a 2015 Camaro built within the current roles for Stock Eliminator would weigh around 2,800 lbs without driver. That's 1,100 lbs. from what you want and 800 lbs. from the 2012 car that I owned!! The decision was made to keep the ballast to no more than 500 lbs.

Ya know, you've brought up a good point and one that VERY few Racers know about. I doubt that many Techs even know this.

4:2 Ballast
Maximum amount of removable AND/OR permanent ballast, unless otherwise stated under Class Requirements, is 500 pounds.

I've had discussions with a few Racers over the years, mainly Fox body FFFFord racers who have told me that they have more weight than that to get to legal wt.
(I'm not picking on Fox body FFFFord combos, just trying to make a point)

When you race a FWD combo this gets to be an issue in a hurry!

[Billy Nees]

Originally Posted by GUMP

With all of the knowledge gained in those years it was obvious that a 2015 Camaro built within the current rules for Stock Eliminator would weigh around 2,800 lbs without driver. That's 1,100 lbs. from what you want and 800 lbs. from the 2012 car that I owned!! The decision was made to keep the ballast to no more than 500 lbs.

And yet, when it's convenient for them, the manufacturers "manipulate" the weights and NHRA goes right along with them! Case-in-point,

2019 Challenger 1320 #3399 8.23 a nice natural A car that can make AA/A/B

2017 Challenger Hellcat #4500 7.50 natural AA car that can make A

Same car, #1100 difference between the two? It couldn't just be that Mopar was picking-and-choosing classes could it?

Larry, maybe you could ask your Mopar buddys about this (and your hood) and I'll find out about that .525 FFFFord cam.

[GUMP]

Originally Posted by Billy Nees

And yet, when it's convenient for them, the manufacturers "manipulate" the weights and NHRA goes right along with them! Case-in-point,

2019 Challenger 1320 #3399 8.23 a nice natural A car that can make AA/A/B

2017 Challenger Hellcat #4500 7.50 natural AA car that can make A

Same car, #1100 difference between the two? It couldn't just be that Mopar was picking-and-choosing classes could it?

Larry, maybe you could ask your Mopar buddys about this (and your hood) and I'll find out about that .525 FFFFord cam.

My Drag Pak has been sitting in the same spot since 2010. So, I can't offer anything but opinion on this!

The 2019 Challenger 1320 looks, to me, to be where I would expect it to run.

The Hellcat is one of those combinations that I will be shocked if anyone actually builds one!!

[Billy Nees]

Originally Posted by GUMP

The 2019 Challenger 1320 looks, to me, to be where I would expect it to run.

The Hellcat is one of those combinations that I will be shocked if anyone actually builds one!!

My point being, how can two cars that are basically the same (body/chassis, hemi engine/trans/rear) be separated by 1100 pounds in weight other than the Hellcat needing to weigh 4500 lbs. to make it into Stock Eliminator?

[dartman]

Originally Posted by Billy Nees

And yet, when it's convenient for them, the manufacturers "manipulate" the weights and NHRA goes right along with them! Case-in-point,

2019 Challenger 1320 #3399 8.23 a nice natural A car that can make AA/A/B

2017 Challenger Hellcat #4500 7.50 natural AA car that can make A

Same car, #1100 difference between the two? It couldn't just be that Mopar was picking-and-choosing classes could it?

Larry, maybe you could ask your Mopar buddys about this (and your hood) and I'll find out about that .525 FFFFord cam.

not the same cars at all.hellcat is a 6.2s/c car. 1320 is a 6.4n/a car.

[Lenny5160]

Originally Posted by dartman

not the same cars at all.hellcat is a 6.2s/c car. 1320 is a 6.4n/a car.

How much does that blower weigh???

[Glenn Briglio]

Originally Posted by Lenny5160

How much does that blower weigh???

1000 lbs right............lol