Shipping weights

Race Clean · 02-13-2022, 02:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Charley Downing

Can someone explain to me why we need shipping weights for Stock and Superstock anymore? I would love to hear one good reason.

Maybe to keep good car engine/combos from dominate yet another class!
When they changed the rule to be allowed people to move up one class in addition to move to down a class I can't help feel that some good cars got a little bit hurt by new combo's previously not allowed to battle in that class .
But lots of people maybe like this to be an "few combos field" in the end...

Charley Downing · 02-13-2022, 03:04 PM

Mr or Miss Race Clean that is about the weakest /vaguest argument for needing shipping weight so far. Basically your saying Please don't run my class it not far, that you have worked on improving your car and lighting it up over the years. My combo should only be allowed to run at the top of the class.
Could you give all of us an example of this. I'm pretty sure that most classes have 3-4 combos in each class that run a the top of the pack. with the exception to classes with slower then 13 second indexes just because of lack of car count in those classes

Also please try and use you real name (this goes for everyone with an option on this for or against). This is a going to be a real issue with STK and SS if this shipping deal is not handled in a way that is best for the class and its ability to keep current and new racers coming back to a sport we all care about.

Billy Nees · 02-13-2022, 03:19 PM

Just two questions to go with this "eliminate the shipping weights thing;

Will the Tech guys be checking for ballast? And will they be tossing cars out that are carrying over 500 lbs.? It's a "General Regulation".

How long will it be before the Racers that want to do away with shipping weights are wanting fiberglass and carbon fiber parts so that they can lighten up their combos and making it "fair" to their heavy combos that can't compete with the light combos?

If this passes, it WILL be the beginning of "E.T. 2 to the lanes"!

Bob Bender · 02-13-2022, 03:33 PM

Just drop the 170 rule.

Herbie Null · 02-13-2022, 04:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Billy Nees

Just two questions to go with this "eliminate the shipping weights thing;

Will the Tech guys be checking for ballast? And will they be tossing cars out that are carrying over 500 lbs.? It's a "General Regulation".

How long will it be before the Racers that want to do away with shipping weights are wanting fiberglass and carbon fiber parts so that they can lighten up their combos and making it "fair" to their heavy combos that can't compete with the light combos?

If this passes, it WILL be the beginning of "E.T. 2 to the lanes"!

(1) You can only have 100lbs of loose ballast including weight box, if your attaching more than 400lbs to the frame you should be in a upper class. (2) You can ask for fiberglass hoods and doors with or without shipping weights and I’m sure the answer is going to be a No. Modified, FGT and GT have no shipping weights and bracket 2 has not been called to the lanes. I had the same fears as others when the did away with shipping weights in GT, nothing has changed just made more guys happy.

Charley Downing · 02-13-2022, 05:12 PM

Billy its not 1975 anymore. Eliminating shipping weights is way different then asking for carbon fiber hoods and doors. I agree let tech get hard on a ballast max weight, make sure that racers are following the 100 total lbs weight box rule. Just enforce the current weight rules. But at the end of the day its has to be easier in NHRA and the racer for this class to make it. The days of 15 plus NHRA tech guys that an event know the STK/SS rules front and back are over and never coming back.

Billy Nees · 02-13-2022, 06:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Charley Downing

Billy its not 1975 anymore. Eliminating shipping weights is way different then asking for carbon fiber hoods and doors. I agree let tech get hard on a ballast max weight, make sure that racers are following the 100 total lbs weight box rule. Just enforce the current weight rules. But at the end of the day its has to be easier in NHRA and the racer for this class to make it. The days of 15 plus NHRA tech guys that an event know the STK/SS rules front and back are over and never coming back.

Charlie Bob, I'm going to try and make this as simple as I can for guys like you and Gaffney ( who BTW doesn't run in Stock) to understand, in 1975, you had to use a for real "stock" cam. That went away, we went to "stock" lift, any duration because there weren't enough Tech inspectors who knew how to check a cam. Then, we had to change the valve spring rule because the "stock" springs wouldn't follow the square cams that were suddenly "stock". Then, because we were blowing up all of our "stock" motors from the RPM that we could now turn, we were allowed pistons, valves, rods, and cranks made by the aftermarket for our "stock" motors. Then, we were allowed aluminum heads, blocks and cranks because all of the "stock" stuff was too hard to find (B.S.).
Are you getting my drift here? I will guarantee you that if you do away with shipping weights, there will be a push for light weight stuff within a couple of years. It's what Racers do.

Charley Downing · 02-13-2022, 07:10 PM

Billy I am going to make it simple as well. We are not going back in time. Those were great racing times no question. But time doesn’t stand still and some old rules need to change with time and technology.
I for one am glad haft of those old stocker rules like valve spring pressure are gone.

JeremyDuncan · 02-13-2022, 11:47 PM

My two cents, I am not in favor of ditching traditional SS and Stock shipping weights. Yes the old GT shipping weight rules were obtuse( vehicle shipping weight +/- 250lbs ÷ engine factored HP to get Power to Weight & and even if a car fit a class it couldn't always get to run at the bottom or minimum of that class if it didn't fit the bottom of the class) but the traditional SS and Stock shipping weights rules are much more straight forward. Find your car's combo power to weight. See what class weight break it fits and you run one class lighter or one class heavier. Simple.

I think If you do away with shipping weights than there will be a whole lot more of dodging going on. Jumping to classes to avoid potential heads up. It certainly will be easier to do.

Also some combos will receive a big advantage. For example the 4th gen LS1 Firebirds in SS. Auto Ram air cars fit F,G,H at 319hp. Flat hoods H,I,J at 305. You telling me that ever Ram air car is not going to switch a flat hood and get 14hp off their combo the first day that shipping weights are done away with? I am sure there is others that will benefit also. Not exactly fair to other competitors running against those combos.

Finally I think it would cause more of a problem with people lighten their cars then running super heavy. Exotic materials (Carbon Fiber, Titanium, Aluminum, etc) aren't cheap and like most relaxing of the rules done in the past by NHRA will drive the cost of keeping a competitive car up dramatically.

Bill Grubbs · 02-13-2022, 06:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Herbie Null

(1) You can only have 100lbs of loose ballast including weight box, if your attaching more than 400lbs to the frame you should be in a upper class. (2) You can ask for fiberglass hoods and doors with or without shipping weights and I’m sure the answer is going to be a No. Modified, FGT and GT have no shipping weights and bracket 2 has not been called to the lanes. I had the same fears as others when the did away with shipping weights in GT, nothing has changed just made more guys happy.

and made others unhappy.

If you want no shipping weights then run the superstock classes of Modified, FGT and GT. Leave the rest of Stock and Superstock alone!

Quit all the rule changes...and the proposed rule changes!

If you don't like the rules then run the local associations and change their rules. Heck, Charlie, you have the power to change the GLSSA rules.

02-13-2022, 03:04 PM	#2
Charley Downing Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 761 Likes: 16 Liked 633 Times in 88 Posts	Re: Shipping weights Mr or Miss Race Clean that is about the weakest /vaguest argument for needing shipping weight so far. Basically your saying Please don't run my class it not far, that you have worked on improving your car and lighting it up over the years. My combo should only be allowed to run at the top of the class. Could you give all of us an example of this. I'm pretty sure that most classes have 3-4 combos in each class that run a the top of the pack. with the exception to classes with slower then 13 second indexes just because of lack of car count in those classes Also please try and use you real name (this goes for everyone with an option on this for or against). This is a going to be a real issue with STK and SS if this shipping deal is not handled in a way that is best for the class and its ability to keep current and new racers coming back to a sport we all care about. __________________ Charley Downing 3548 STK

02-13-2022, 03:19 PM	#3
Billy Nees VIP Member Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: On a hilltop in Pa. Posts: 4,487 Likes: 3,588 Liked 7,685 Times in 1,732 Posts	Re: Shipping weights Just two questions to go with this "eliminate the shipping weights thing; Will the Tech guys be checking for ballast? And will they be tossing cars out that are carrying over 500 lbs.? It's a "General Regulation". How long will it be before the Racers that want to do away with shipping weights are wanting fiberglass and carbon fiber parts so that they can lighten up their combos and making it "fair" to their heavy combos that can't compete with the light combos? If this passes, it WILL be the beginning of "E.T. 2 to the lanes"! __________________ Billy Nees 1188 STK, SS I'm not spending 100K to win 2K

02-13-2022, 03:33 PM	#4
Bob Bender VIP Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Maryland Posts: 1,733 Likes: 1,596 Liked 459 Times in 90 Posts	Re: Shipping weights Just drop the 170 rule. __________________ Bob Bender 144 O/SA 2010-2012 National Record Holder

02-13-2022, 05:12 PM	#6
Charley Downing Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 761 Likes: 16 Liked 633 Times in 88 Posts	Re: Shipping weights Billy its not 1975 anymore. Eliminating shipping weights is way different then asking for carbon fiber hoods and doors. I agree let tech get hard on a ballast max weight, make sure that racers are following the 100 total lbs weight box rule. Just enforce the current weight rules. But at the end of the day its has to be easier in NHRA and the racer for this class to make it. The days of 15 plus NHRA tech guys that an event know the STK/SS rules front and back are over and never coming back. __________________ Charley Downing 3548 STK

02-13-2022, 07:10 PM	#8
Charley Downing Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 761 Likes: 16 Liked 633 Times in 88 Posts	Re: Shipping weights Billy I am going to make it simple as well. We are not going back in time. Those were great racing times no question. But time doesn’t stand still and some old rules need to change with time and technology. I for one am glad haft of those old stocker rules like valve spring pressure are gone. __________________ Charley Downing 3548 STK

02-13-2022, 11:47 PM	#9
JeremyDuncan Member Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 264 Likes: 1,169 Liked 354 Times in 79 Posts	Re: Shipping weights My two cents, I am not in favor of ditching traditional SS and Stock shipping weights. Yes the old GT shipping weight rules were obtuse( vehicle shipping weight +/- 250lbs ÷ engine factored HP to get Power to Weight & and even if a car fit a class it couldn't always get to run at the bottom or minimum of that class if it didn't fit the bottom of the class) but the traditional SS and Stock shipping weights rules are much more straight forward. Find your car's combo power to weight. See what class weight break it fits and you run one class lighter or one class heavier. Simple. I think If you do away with shipping weights than there will be a whole lot more of dodging going on. Jumping to classes to avoid potential heads up. It certainly will be easier to do. Also some combos will receive a big advantage. For example the 4th gen LS1 Firebirds in SS. Auto Ram air cars fit F,G,H at 319hp. Flat hoods H,I,J at 305. You telling me that ever Ram air car is not going to switch a flat hood and get 14hp off their combo the first day that shipping weights are done away with? I am sure there is others that will benefit also. Not exactly fair to other competitors running against those combos. Finally I think it would cause more of a problem with people lighten their cars then running super heavy. Exotic materials (Carbon Fiber, Titanium, Aluminum, etc) aren't cheap and like most relaxing of the rules done in the past by NHRA will drive the cost of keeping a competitive car up dramatically.