Billet cams and lifter supply

[SSDiv6]

Originally Posted by ProfessorRock

So i think its time to have a serious conversation about the problem that we are having right now with lifters and cam cores .Again --- this time its billet or steel cams and what kind of lifter material you are going to put on the billet cam. This is a problem only with flat tappets, so those using rollersmay not even be aware. So how many 'just stockers" using flats are there?? If u r one of those racers or eng. builders that have tried ordering a set of steel lifters to put on your steel cam, you know there are none ,zero avail. anywhere,and back ordered 6months or more. It seems to me that the eng. builders don't want to talk about it in public. (why? maybe they all think that their customers (racers) believe that their builder is the only one who knows how to get a bigger cam lobe and use more spring pressure than all the other guys. LMAO as its some big secret haha (it isn't). All the top builders know how to do it. So no one talks about it. But NOW its a problem for everyone. Want a new cam ,great heres one.$500 Example -Want some steel tappets to go on that fancy new cam- sorry Sic dont got any. Well we have just a couple sets coated with DLC cost$2200 or more.and if they bounce just one time they will destroy your engine. Not our fault. So i started this thread because i know a little bit about materials and coatings, not everything ,but a little. So why dont some of you builders who belong to Classracer get in this conversation and see if we can find a solution,because it is not going away anytime soon. I know this likely does not affect the cars with smaller engines or cam specs. that dont use a lot of spring pressure. But most do. So as much as us older guys don't like all the rule changes, allowing not original parts ,it might be time to have this discussion with NHRA to save the pre 1987 cars. Because all of the roller motors (engines) do not have this problem. as Mr. William said "tis not that i love Caesar less, but that i love Rome (classracing) more. I am posting this on top forum also.

Yes, there is a supply chain issue with parts.
The current catalog solid lifters have metallurgy and manufacturing issues.

PPPC, Trend and Crower manufacture the best solid lifters for use with billet camshaft cores. DLC is a nanocomposite coating and there are different types of DLC coatings that contain a different matrix. Never seen a lifter fail due to the DLC coating failing to what you call "bouncing". The only lifters I have seen fail had a ceramic puck added to the contact area.

If you valve "bouncing" on your lifters, then you have other problems that need to be addressed such as an unstable valvetrain and/or valvetrain issues..

Stock Eliminator is not the only class being affected due to the quality of solid lifters. There are many circle track associations, with sealed and non-sealed engines experiencing the same issues and many are considering the allowance of roller lifters.

[Tim H]

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[Sam Murray]

The other side of the coin is if all the associations including NHRA allow rollers. How long will it take to be a supply chain issue for rollers? Are they available for every engine make?

[Jim Kaekel]

If you want roller lifters, they are legal...in Super Stock.

[john ancona]

Originally Posted by Jim Kaekel

If you want roller lifters, they are legal...in Super Stock.

Why not just build a 1985 or newer and stay in Stock Eliminator most all have roller lifters from the factory , 38 years ago the American car manufactures pretty much switched to roller lifters ,and for a good reason the oil formulation changed , so fast forward to today ,like I have said before where were many of the keep the flat tappet cam alive racers when all the other rule changes over the years case in point a 68 Corba Jet C/SA went about 11.40 in 1978 ,today 10.30 I ran one 50 years ago ,and have a very clear understanding of how one goes over a second faster today. Wouldn't be all the rule changes would it, the same rule changes that apply today for most if not all the racers that say the same old if you want roller lifters ,they are legal ...in Super Stock
But wait what about all the rule changes racers took on there own to enhance other parts of the engine at a extremely high cost well we will just look the other way at those rule changes made by the racers themselves , the point is why other than for a few racers would the lifter problem be fixed by going to roller lifters at not only a much lower cost but ,and able to buy them .

[Rich67stang]

I am sick and tired of listening to the excuse "Supply Chain Issues". It is 2022, two years removed from Covid. All these companies showcase @ SEMA and PRI products they cannot produce, "Do your damn Job or close your Doors". I run a Construction Co in NYC, We NEVER stopped during Covid Nor Delayed projects. Incompetent people with excuses.

[Mike Pearson]

Originally Posted by Rich67stang

I am sick and tired of listening to the excuse "Supply Chain Issues". It is 2022, two years removed from Covid. All these companies showcase @ SEMA and PRI products they cannot produce, "Do your damn Job or close your Doors". I run a Construction Co in NYC, We NEVER stopped during Covid Nor Delayed projects. Incompetent people with excuses.

I also work in the commercial construction world. Same here we never missed a day of work during covid. During that time all of the back stock was used up. Now we are having real supply chain issues. On the project I am working on now we had to wait a full year for the roof membrane. Now waiting for AC units that were ordered 8 months ago are still several months out for manufacture and delivery. The main electrical gear from Square D is over a year lead time. Waiting for an emergency generator from Cummins/Onan that has been on order for over a year and is 3 months overdue. Thats just a short list. concrete shortages. had a hard time getting 12 inch CMU. Insulated hurricane glass is a 6 month lead time. Then we had the hurricane about a month ago and the power company has paused all new construction projects while they ae in storm reconstruction mode . All of this is affecting our completion dates.

I can only imagine what these small high performance manufacturers are going through. I need to freshen my engine in the next several months to be ready for next year. Not sure if rings, valves and springs will be available. I guess i will find out here real soon. unfortunatly i dont see it improving any time soon.

[B Parker]

Originally Posted by Jim Kaekel

If you want roller lifters, they are legal...in Super Stock.

Jim, Why didn't I think about that. So all you guys that have an older than 85 car and need a set of lifters that are going to last. Just put your cars in a car crusher. Maybe Jim will post his phone number and start giving away his money if you can't afford a Super Stocker.

Jeff V don't get me wrong I like the new cars in Stock but most are closer to comp motor's than old school Stockers. With your car you don't have to worry about them.

James Perrone I'd guess knowing your engine builder you already have a set of Tool Steel lifters in your car. What if you break and need to fix it?

Sam I'm not sure how many sets of roller lifters there are but with almost all race engine using them. I'm sure the supply has to be greater than flat tappet lifters. I used Schubecks for years with no problems. But we all know someone that has lost a motor with them. I offered my old set to a friend but his engine builder wouldn't use them.

Rich I'm sure we all agree with you. We can only hope for change in our Country. I sold my business at the beginning of the year because I'm done counting on employee's. But it still doesn't fix the problem.

[BG56]

Ahhh, bidenflation and universal economic incompetence. Or is it intentional. Love him or hate him, TRUMP had USA revving on all cylinders. And even peace breaking out in the Middle East! Tuesday is Election Day. Are you 'satisfied' with the current condition or maybe start to get back to where we SHOULD BE?!

[Jim Kaekel]

[QUOTE=B Parker;670286]Jim, Why didn't I think about that. So all you guys that have an older than 85 car and need a set of lifters that are going to last. Just put your cars in a car crusher. Maybe Jim will post his phone number and start giving away his money if you can't afford a Super Stocker.

Barry: I'm just not for rules that turn Stock into Super Stock. Racers wanted unlimited valve springs....they got them. Racers wanted roller rockers (even though Clark Holroyd's stuff was legal)...and they got them too. Add to that, and now some are calling for legalizing roller lifters on applications that never came with them. What's next, 14" x 32"'s and Edelbrock intakes? Personally, I have absolutely no interest in running Super Stock...it's been literally transformed into Comp.