Billet cams and lifter supply

[Gary Parker]

For those who can't remember back when we used to have to meet overlap and duration with the cam and spring pressures were checked we were still wiping out camshafts. That's why the schubeck lifters were such a hit when they first came out. And now with the cost of today's engines it would be nice to bulletproof them so they do not come apart.

[Billy Nees]

Originally Posted by Gary Parker

And now with the cost of today's engines it would be nice to bulletproof them so they do not come apart.

Even if Stock were put back to "Stock", this^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ will never happen.

[Doug Hoven]

I apologize if this comes off a bit standoffish, especially coming from a 19 year old "kid", but there are more ways to control a radical camshaft than throwing heaping amounts of valve spring pressure at it. At least with flat tappet stuff, I don't see why you couldn't build a good stocker engine with, for example, a 150lb on the seat valve spring rule. I know it probably means nothing to the average A,B,C stock racer, but the 6 cylinder engine I built last winter was quite happy with about 100lb on the seat, and that cam is by no means "soft" in any way.

[1347]

Originally Posted by tavirace

I know I'll be classed as a lunatic but I see is the cause of all this fuss and expense is the obsession in stock and super/stock with UNDER. The index for for super gas is 9.90 the index for G/SA is 12.00 that's how it should stay. It's of no value to go 9.20 in super gas it could be of no value to go 11.20 in G/SA. In a heads up run you could still let it fly and you could still have class eliminations but do away with the qualifying ego trip, it could reduce expenses and create a new element in the game. Otherwise the never ending rule change and technology roller coaster is endless and for many they just can't keep up with it.

That sounds like good comparison, but have you ever paid attention on the engines they use in the 8.90 9.90 and 10.90 classes? Almost all of them are capable of going a full second under, and some go double that. Go bring your 10.90 124mph super street car to a race and see how much mph your competiton has on you.

Racing is a competitive sport, and most of us aren't happy with just going fast enough. It's the nature of our sport and what pushes us to keep working. As the rules change those who can afford it, and some that can't, will push the limits of our allowed parts until there is nothing left, or at least until we can't afford to find any more hp. A friend of mine who worked for a Nascar engine shop in the 90s said when he worked for Robert Yates, they spent over a million dollars in testing to find less then 10hp in an engine that I believe made around 700 back then.

As soon as rules change such as valve springs, rockers, cams, heads, intakes ,etc, the limits are opened up again to find new hp. If roller lifters became legal, 500 to 3000 dollar lifters would be the norm, cam profiles would start changing immediately for those who could afford it, throwing those old cams in a pile, and finding even more hp to be able to run better and further under the index. A quick browse through a PAC price sheet will show that you can spend well over 1500 dollars for some good roller springs,and retainers. And after all that, some of those same people who just needed to find an affordable lifter, would then be the same ones down the road to post how we need to lower the indexes more. Stockers and even Super Stockers only got faster because of rule changes and piles of money. I am all for spending as much as you can to make your combo go faster, and don't fault anyone to try to get the rules changed to get an advantage. But there is more to " we need an affordable easy to get lifter" than just that statement.

[bubski]

Bubski would like to say to Mr Parker !! As a dear friend of his once told another !! " Just you never mind who I am " Bubski's story starts around 1991 !! Bubski really wanted to build a Stocker 67 Camaro !! So Bubski went to the track and talked to any stocker racer that would deal with a 23 year old asking a million questions !! When all was said and done everyone said I needed to get my heads and intake done by a "stocker specialist" I asked why ?? Ive got all the equipment at my disposal and Ive read the valve job and head and intake rules and I should be fine !! Boy was I clueless !! I proceeded to find someone friendly enough to explain this to me !! They said acid porting covering up grinding was the norm and without it you'll be a Duck !! I said "that's not legal " and was laughed at !! Bubski was totally discouraged by the lack of compliance to the rules !! And the way those guys stood there chest pumped up like they really are better than the next guy !! Shortly thereafter Bubski strolled into his mentors shop and saw a set of old small valve doorstop type of heads ported nicely with epoxy in the ports !! Bubski asked " who'd run this junk " It was then that Bubski was told in SS you could now port the heads legally !! as long as you keep runner volumes as produced and there was no need to hide the porting !! its legal now !! Bubski said OMG !! this is great !! no cheating and hoping to pass tech with one of the components that's very important to performance !! So Bubski decided SS was more in line with his values and built a car !! Bubski still is really fond of Stock and wishes it hadn't got outta hand like it has !! I know its all outta control !! As for the most enhanced combo on record the L78 !! U got a block ,prolly big cam tunnel , heads , newer intake , carb , roller rockers ,crank ,rods . etc !! having all this Gingerbread enhancements must make you feel entitled to getting whatever you want !! Bubski would like to apologize for this long rant !! Cheers !! GOD willing Bubski will be out in 2023 !!

[Neil Smedley]

Ive known Professor Rock for 25 yrs. Have used his coatings on several engines. They also work on oem moving parts for a low buck guy like me. He has always been my Go To for sound advice....I strongly recommend that you give him a try. You wont regret it......

[B Parker]

Doug you don't need to apologize to any of us on here. I have to believe most of us old guys love seeing a young guy like yourself involved in Stock. Wish there was more of you. But that's another story. It's great you have that old timer (LOL) Billy helping you out. You will learn a lot from him.

Tavirace, My close friend and I'll call him Danny was doing exactly what you said several years ago. He ran in H/SA. At 3 races in a row he had a heads up race in the first round. He tried hard to be competitive but with the old school Stocker he didn't really have a chance. So in the end he spent thousand of dollars to travel, enter a race, and maintain his car not to be competitive. If you run a competitive class and want to be able to run close to others you don't have much of a choice. In G/SA an 11.20 won't get you very far. Didn't someone run 10.60's in G this year.

So all you guys that are worried about the old school stockers with flat tappet lifters becoming more like Super Stockers. What do you think about the Stockers with parachutes on them? LMAO Stocker with another manufactures rear in the car. Blower's on a Stocker. That one really cracks me up. Adapter plates on the back of motors to be able to use another manufactory tranny. Eight second Stockers?
My 94 car doesn't even need a tack in it. With the E-shift the car drives itself. Then it adjusts the fuel curve as it goes down the track. And you worry about roller lifters!! That are being used by so many other combo's
I'd understand about the lifters if you could get a good set but when they stop making them that's another story.

Bubski still can't use your real name. Frank said he never said that to you. As far as my combo I've never been really crazy about it. I'd rather run a small block. But at 20 grand for the car it was hard to pass up. BP

.

[Billy Nees]

Originally Posted by B Parker

Blower's on a Stocker. That one really cracks me up. BP

Whoo boy.................................;-)

[GUMP]

Anyone want to take a bet on the next thing being that 9" tires are no longer safe....

[J.R. Haddad]

Gump, you are my hero when it comes to common sense. I think that
could be a tough argument given that the Showdown Cars runs as
quick as 7.60's. Now, their 9" tires are wider than our 9" tires, so I
could see this heading to a NHRA ruling that all F/S cars and A thru E
regular cars get to use the wider 9" tires, and all others use the regular
9" tires. Before I get attacked, this is just my guess on what could happen,
not what I want.

JR