« WAGON OF STEEL » 1000 feet nose diving technic.

Billy Nees · 11-17-2023, 08:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ellis V Buth

I don't like the idea of a 10% rule either for DQ'ing based on running a certain MPH or whatever. There's too many chances for illegitimate DQ's there.

Ellis, I'm not the one who threw out that 10% number.
BUT, when was the last time that a Racer was DQ.d for excessive braking? We have Racers coming on here all of the time complaining that S/SS are no longer "performance" based Eliminators and yet these same Racers are OK with "spot", "shift light", "RPM" or "time related" down-track dropping.
NHRA feels that it's a "safety" issue for my slow, V8 Stocker to not have an SFI flexplate in it. To not have one could kill or injure the Racer "in the other lane" (or a spectator).
BUT, a Racer in a 120+ to160+ MPH car can "play finish-line-games" with your 70 MPH car "in the other lane" and nothing can happen?!?

Lenny5160_v2 · 11-17-2023, 10:58 AM

Who is killing 20+ MPH more safely than Troy? Perhaps lifting at the 1000' should be the new rule.

SDT1DYI · 11-17-2023, 11:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Billy Nees

Ellis, I'm not the one who threw out that 10% number.
BUT, when was the last time that a Racer was DQ.d for excessive braking? We have Racers coming on here all of the time complaining that S/SS are no longer "performance" based Eliminators and yet these same Racers are OK with "spot", "shift light", "RPM" or "time related" down-track dropping.
NHRA feels that it's a "safety" issue for my slow, V8 Stocker to not have an SFI flexplate in it. To not have one could kill or injure the Racer "in the other lane" (or a spectator).
BUT, a Racer in a 120+ to160+ MPH car can "play finish-line-games" with your 70 MPH car "in the other lane" and nothing can happen?!?

What ever happened to " Top Stock and Jr. Stock"? Condense the number of classes by a weight break change.
Three or four heads up class groupings with similar ET's and Speeds together, all heads up runs.
Then the eliminator winners race
In a dial race as we currently do.
This would get us back to what Drag racing was originally about.

Steve Teeter Stk B/SA 620

Stan Weiss · 11-17-2023, 11:27 AM

I did some calculations which are all theoretical (never had any real data to double check them), using a WAG on some vehicle things like CD and frontal area. I can see this run using no brakes and just coasting from about 825 feet.

Stan

Ellis V Buth · 11-17-2023, 11:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Billy Nees

Ellis, I'm not the one who threw out that 10% number.
BUT, when was the last time that a Racer was DQ.d for excessive braking? We have Racers coming on here all of the time complaining that S/SS are no longer "performance" based Eliminators and yet these same Racers are OK with "spot", "shift light", "RPM" or "time related" down-track dropping.
NHRA feels that it's a "safety" issue for my slow, V8 Stocker to not have an SFI flexplate in it. To not have one could kill or injure the Racer "in the other lane" (or a spectator).
BUT, a Racer in a 120+ to160+ MPH car can "play finish-line-games" with your 70 MPH car "in the other lane" and nothing can happen?!?

Billy, I do know it wasn't your suggestion...I was just replying to you because you've been on the same side of the 3 tenths argument as me and your back and forth banter was what led to the 10% suggestion.

I've seen several warnings issued for excessive braking in D3 since I've been doing this...but I do not recall the last DQ for it.

As for the "finish line games" I know each time I get into my vehicle what could happen. I accept that risk any time I strap in and fire it up. That's just my take on it though.

Greg Gay · 11-17-2023, 01:01 PM

I would much rather race a guy who coasts from 1000 feet to the finish line, than one who runs to the first speed cone and jams the brakes. It may not show from the vehicle that I've been running recently, but I'll take the faster car advantage any day. More power to him for being able to win with this strategy.

Billy Nees · 11-17-2023, 03:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ellis V Buth

As for the "finish line games" I know each time I get into my vehicle what could happen. I accept that risk any time I strap in and fire it up. That's just my take on it though.

Ellis, I feel exactly the same way. This is automobile racing not checkers. What has always made me a little "edgy" about "finish line games" is what will the NHRA do knowing of it's knee-jerk reactions to situations if/when (heaven forbid) there IS an incident involving a 70 MPH car and a 160 MPH car? Will all competitors suddenly need rollcages, harnesses and suits in order to compete?

L.Fite · 11-17-2023, 06:20 PM

so why not run off the record?
(wouldn't that be sort heads up in a way? a lot easier for spectators to comprehend?)
they're all mostly minimum any way...

seems to me some will need to be set.

and about that 10% speed thing...
some complain about it being a bracket race...
why would you want to run it like a index race...
that's how some of those were run...

tstickff · 11-20-2023, 09:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by L.Fite

so why not run off the record?
(wouldn't that be sort heads up in a way? a lot easier for spectators to comprehend?)
they're all mostly minimum any way...

seems to me some will need to be set.

and about that 10% speed thing...
some complain about it being a bracket race...
why would you want to run it like a index race...
that's how some of those were run...

First off, what’s the record since nobody sets records anymore? NHRA or the racer doesn’t want to tear down. Plus NHRA doesn’t even post the records anymore, if you look there may be a couple die hard old school racers that still care and actually set a record here and there. But the fact is NHRA is too understaffed to deal with a tear down during any given event.

Second it’s not the 70s anymore, that’s why there is indexes etc so everyone can compete in some way shape or form. You think the guys that have a car that fits in G/SA coming into the sport as newbies are going to stick around knowing they can’t make a 305 Camaro run 10.60s against the record?

Tim Stickles

SSDiv6 · 11-17-2023, 06:50 PM

...Warren Johnson stated during an interview..."If the results do not match the theory, create a new theory.."
...so, here is my theory...

I have known Troy for many years and all I can say is that he knows his station wagon like his hand, and from every angle. He knows the end result of every change he makes, and he is also a great driver. ...and no, I have seen his car close and there are no hidden devices or electronics.

11-17-2023, 10:58 AM	#2
Lenny5160_v2 Member Join Date: Feb 2023 Location: Inver Grove Heights, MN Posts: 177 Likes: 471 Liked 225 Times in 96 Posts	Re: « WAGON OF STEEL » 1000 feet nose diving technic. Who is killing 20+ MPH more safely than Troy? Perhaps lifting at the 1000' should be the new rule. __________________ Tony Leonard S/ST 56 S/C 53

11-17-2023, 11:27 AM	#4
Stan Weiss Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2020 Location: Phila, PA Posts: 795 Likes: 0 Liked 734 Times in 385 Posts	Re: « WAGON OF STEEL » 1000 feet nose diving technic. I did some calculations which are all theoretical (never had any real data to double check them), using a WAG on some vehicle things like CD and frontal area. I can see this run using no brakes and just coasting from about 825 feet. Stan

11-17-2023, 01:01 PM	#6
Greg Gay Member Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Vermont Posts: 388 Likes: 22 Liked 286 Times in 73 Posts	Re: « WAGON OF STEEL » 1000 feet nose diving technic. I would much rather race a guy who coasts from 1000 feet to the finish line, than one who runs to the first speed cone and jams the brakes. It may not show from the vehicle that I've been running recently, but I'll take the faster car advantage any day. More power to him for being able to win with this strategy.

11-17-2023, 06:20 PM	#8
L.Fite Senior Member Join Date: May 2020 Posts: 517 Likes: 559 Liked 497 Times in 243 Posts	Re: « WAGON OF STEEL » 1000 feet nose diving technic. so why not run off the record? (wouldn't that be sort heads up in a way? a lot easier for spectators to comprehend?) they're all mostly minimum any way... seems to me some will need to be set. and about that 10% speed thing... some complain about it being a bracket race... why would you want to run it like a index race... that's how some of those were run...

11-17-2023, 06:50 PM	#10
SSDiv6 VIP Member Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Glendale, Arizona Posts: 3,045 Likes: 712 Liked 1,604 Times in 583 Posts	Re: « WAGON OF STEEL » 1000 feet nose diving technic. ...Warren Johnson stated during an interview..."If the results do not match the theory, create a new theory.." ...so, here is my theory... I have known Troy for many years and all I can say is that he knows his station wagon like his hand, and from every angle. He knows the end result of every change he makes, and he is also a great driver. ...and no, I have seen his car close and there are no hidden devices or electronics.