Why is there no interest in all new combos

jmcarter · 01-06-2024, 10:15 AM

Using the provided calculator (thanks BTW) I input what I paid for a new 1967 SS396(325) Chevelle just before entering college.

$2,800 in 1967 is worth $26,549.06 today

In today’s $ that doesn’t buy much of a performance car. I had saved working two jobs in high school and having a part time job in college in order to swing it. In today’s market it’s little wonder kids drive cheap beaters, with coffee can exhausts for “performance”. Just another factor in why you don’t see more young people buying their own way into racing like we did.

Jeff Niceswanger · 01-06-2024, 10:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jmcarter

Using the provided calculator (thanks BTW) I input what I paid for a new 1967 SS396(325) Chevelle just before entering college.

$2,800 in 1967 is worth $26,549.06 today

In today’s $ that doesn’t buy much of a performance car. I had saved working two jobs in high school and having a part time job in college in order to swing it. In today’s market it’s little wonder kids drive cheap beaters, with coffee can exhausts for “performance”. Just another factor in why you don’t see more young people buying their own way into racing like we did.

I bought this with paper route money and paid cash, 1695.00.. on my 16th birthday of 1972. Then paid cash for a new crate motor L-72 427/425 (we stuck w/L-88 valve train in it) because that little 302 just didn't live up to expectations.
EDIT. Wont let me load pictures. Says I've already loaded them previously ? Its a 69 Silver RS Z-28

Larry Hill · 01-07-2024, 07:49 PM

Money. Younger people will be hesitant about dropping 100 k on a stocker. In some cases the factory support for parts is almost nonexistent. I’ve been trying for years to get a few spare blocks for the Dumbo car, I’m still wishing and hoping.

Wrenchead · 01-07-2024, 09:21 PM

Besides having the money to buy a $100k stocker, young people do not have the technical skills or finances to actively campaign a stocker. I got into a discussion with an owner of a Mustang FSS/ at the Nationals. He was a Ford engineer and was explaining how complex the car was to maintain and run.

Alan Roehrich · 01-07-2024, 11:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Larry Hill

Money. Younger people will be hesitant about dropping 100 k on a stocker. In some cases the factory support for parts is almost nonexistent. I’ve been trying for years to get a few spare blocks for the Dumbo car, I’m still wishing and hoping.

Among car people, disposable income is practically non existent for the majority, especially at that level. Car people are mostly blue collar, and the younger ones simply don't have the money. And it takes time and money to develop the skills and talent. Honestly, if it were not for the fact that there's literally no part on a car I can't work on and complete, I would have given up long ago. If I was buying much done other than machine work (I currently don't have access to a machine shop) I'd be completely out. As it is, I don't know if/when I'm coming back with my own ride.

Mark Yacavone · 01-08-2024, 01:40 PM

I don't necessarily believe young people don't have the skills to run NHRA S/SS, or can't learn them.
I bought my first car at 14. Joined a car club at 20. Set first Nat'l record at 25.
There are plenty of young, talented TIG welders, engine builders, painters, etc

The issue here is that NHRA let them get away while they weren't paying attention.
First there was Super Chevy, Fun Ford events. Then NMRA, NMCA, NSCA, N/SS groups, and many other drag racing sub-cultures....Power Tours, Drag Week (where they don't even drag race..Just lay down numbers. )
TV inspired Pinks, Pass Call, Outlaws, No-Prep, 10.5 this and that. 275 radials etc. etc, etc.
NHRA Class racing pre-dated all of them.
I don't have to wonder why the young folks don't have any interest in it, for the most part.

At the risk of sounding like 660Ed...Enjoy it while you can ...Going, going, g.....

ALMACK · 01-09-2024, 10:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mark Yacavone

I don't necessarily believe young people don't have the skills to run NHRA S/SS, or can't learn them.
I bought my first car at 14. Joined a car club at 20. Set first Nat'l record at 25.
There are plenty of young, talented TIG welders, engine builders, painters, etc

The issue here is that NHRA let them get away while they weren't paying attention.
First there was Super Chevy, Fun Ford events. Then NMRA, NMCA, NSCA, N/SS groups, and many other drag racing sub-cultures....Power Tours, Drag Week (where they don't even drag race..Just lay down numbers. )
TV inspired Pinks, Pass Call, Outlaws, No-Prep, 10.5 this and that. 275 radials etc. etc, etc.
NHRA Class racing pre-dated all of them.
I don't have to wonder why the young folks don't have any interest in it, for the most part.

At the risk of sounding like 660Ed...Enjoy it while you can ...Going, going, g.....

^^ pretty much explains things ^^

When I got hooked on Class racing in the early 80's, NHRA was pretty much the only game in town.

Then came the popularity of the Super Chevy and Ford 5.0 events popping up in the early 90's and that got the attention of the younger gearheads.

Today there are so many more choices for motorsports enthusiast to chose from for their gearhead dollars.

I still love the challenge of getting max performance out of " stock " production parts. But I also understand why younger gearheads are attracted to the heads up type racing venues. Too bad there are not hardly any left at the NHRA offices that care about class racing.

Charlie Yannetti · 01-10-2024, 06:39 PM

WELL PAUL.. at the age of 69, and attending organized Drag Racing since the age of 15, I find myself looking around the staging lanes at most races and realizing that I'm actually one of the younger guys..

Many of the classes, Stock, Super Stock, and Comp Eliminator requires more than an interest in Drag Racing.. it requires mentoring, teaching, and grooming that interest..

To ask why there is no interest in new combos, one would have to ask, WHO WILL RACE THEM??

AJ Laferty · 01-10-2024, 08:20 PM

This is a great thread.

I am a class racer, just not a class drag racer. I am a class autocrosser. Now, before you scroll on, I wanted to chime in here about young racers.

There is no shortage of young class racers, just young class drag racers. I can't swing a dead cat without hitting a young person at an autocross. But, autocross is more about driver skill than making power skill. Don't get me wrong, power certainly has it's place, but a great driver in a low power car will beat a lousy driver in a high power car every time in autocross.

I think there is something to the idea that a class drag car really needs to be towed, but very few "street" (Sports Car Club of America (SCCA) equivalent to NHRA "stock") cars are towed to events. These are the same cars they commute to work/school and go on dates in. I will offer that a "street" class autocross car is pretty much a really stock car with only dampers, tires/wheels and cat back exhaust as allowed modifications. That keeps the costs a little lower i think. In drag racing, I would think the stock rule allowance creep over the years has an impact. Nobody, and I mean NOBODY talks about aftermarket lifters being allowed in "Street." The rules are just tighter and there may be an advantage there.

Young drag racers, who are towing cars, need a tow vehicle and a trailer in addition to their race car. Many young people I know live in apartments where parking a tow vehicle/trailer and race car is just not practical, even if the young folks can afford it. So, "street" class autocross works well for them. (there is no shortage of towed autocross cars, just more street driven autocross cars at events than what I see even at street class bracket racing).

So, I think part of the question that should be asked is not why aren't young people racing, they are, but what and how are they racing? The Solo (autocross) Nationals goes for 4 days and sells out at 1300+ competitors every year (sells out in hours if not minutes). Where was the last 1300 car drag race? So, there is something that is missing. (I can't even get young people to come out to street class bracket race regularly).

Oh, and SCCA national competition, there is a maximum 30 year old car rule for the "street" class. Anything older has to go up a level in modification to continue competing. This is to discourage the advantage of a "unicorn" car combination which has not been available for decades. I am aware of the penalties of rulemaking, if this were to be applied to stock drag racing-many $100K cars would become worth very little and there would be a huge argument against it. But, 40 year old cars can cost a lot of money compared to 10-20 year old cars.

Most "street" class are late models, which can be readily financed and I think there is probably some advantage there. I am not sure many late model stockers in the guide can be financed by average young people due to the cost (not to mention the insurance costs).

The final point i would like to make is there is absolutely zero expectation of winning a purse in autocross. Sure, you may win a set of tires if you win class at a national event, but that's about it. No money. No expectation of covering the cost of entry or tow gas. None of that entire conversation. It's a hobby, why would anyone expect someone else to pay for your hobby? Autocross is not a spectator event so no paying crowd in the stands---pretty much like all the s/ss events I have attended.

I didn't make this post to tout SCCA and autocrossing or bust anybody's chops, but to point out that young people are class racing, but in a different venue. Why is that? Answer that question and I think you'll be on your way to putting young butts in drag race cars.

DG · 01-10-2024, 08:43 PM

AJ Laferty, I dabbled in autocross for a few years while taking a break from drag racing. Your observations are exactly what I noticed. Its a lot of fun for very little money. Best of all, you get their early in the morning and usually heading home by 2 pm the same day. Plus, an autocross can be run at pretty much any large parking lot or small airport. I will say, I think the local wednesday drags at Sacramento raceway had more young people participating than the autocross. Being competitive in autocross stock classes is a lot harder than it looks.

01-06-2024, 10:15 AM	#1
jmcarter VIP Member Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Richmond Hill GA (and Port Ludlow WA) Posts: 4,294 Likes: 2,371 Liked 3,173 Times in 971 Posts	Re: Why is there no interest in all new combos Using the provided calculator (thanks BTW) I input what I paid for a new 1967 SS396(325) Chevelle just before entering college. $2,800 in 1967 is worth $26,549.06 today In today’s $ that doesn’t buy much of a performance car. I had saved working two jobs in high school and having a part time job in college in order to swing it. In today’s market it’s little wonder kids drive cheap beaters, with coffee can exhausts for “performance”. Just another factor in why you don’t see more young people buying their own way into racing like we did. __________________ Jim Carter 2340 Super Stock 2340 SST/2340 Stock Set another place at the table Last edited by jmcarter; 01-06-2024 at 10:23 AM.

01-07-2024, 07:49 PM	#3
Larry Hill Live Reporter Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Hickory, Ky Posts: 10,629 Likes: 1,922 Liked 10,681 Times in 2,222 Posts	Re: Why is there no interest in all new combos Money. Younger people will be hesitant about dropping 100 k on a stocker. In some cases the factory support for parts is almost nonexistent. I’ve been trying for years to get a few spare blocks for the Dumbo car, I’m still wishing and hoping. __________________ IHM Used Parts https://ihmusedparts.com 888-821-1817

01-07-2024, 09:21 PM	#4
Wrenchead Junior Member Join Date: Aug 2010 Posts: 17 Likes: 2 Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: Why is there no interest in all new combos Besides having the money to buy a $100k stocker, young people do not have the technical skills or finances to actively campaign a stocker. I got into a discussion with an owner of a Mustang FSS/ at the Nationals. He was a Ford engineer and was explaining how complex the car was to maintain and run. Last edited by Wrenchead; 01-07-2024 at 09:31 PM.

01-08-2024, 01:40 PM	#6
Mark Yacavone Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Miles From Nowhere Posts: 7,809 Likes: 2,900 Liked 5,114 Times in 1,948 Posts	Re: Why is there no interest in all new combos I don't necessarily believe young people don't have the skills to run NHRA S/SS, or can't learn them. I bought my first car at 14. Joined a car club at 20. Set first Nat'l record at 25. There are plenty of young, talented TIG welders, engine builders, painters, etc The issue here is that NHRA let them get away while they weren't paying attention. First there was Super Chevy, Fun Ford events. Then NMRA, NMCA, NSCA, N/SS groups, and many other drag racing sub-cultures....Power Tours, Drag Week (where they don't even drag race..Just lay down numbers. ) TV inspired Pinks, Pass Call, Outlaws, No-Prep, 10.5 this and that. 275 radials etc. etc, etc. NHRA Class racing pre-dated all of them. I don't have to wonder why the young folks don't have any interest in it, for the most part. At the risk of sounding like 660Ed...Enjoy it while you can ...Going, going, g..... __________________ "We are lucky we don't get as much Government as we pay for." Will Rogers

01-10-2024, 06:39 PM	#8
Charlie Yannetti Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Alpine, NJ Posts: 568 Likes: 188 Liked 192 Times in 83 Posts	Re: Why is there no interest in all new combos WELL PAUL.. at the age of 69, and attending organized Drag Racing since the age of 15, I find myself looking around the staging lanes at most races and realizing that I'm actually one of the younger guys.. Many of the classes, Stock, Super Stock, and Comp Eliminator requires more than an interest in Drag Racing.. it requires mentoring, teaching, and grooming that interest.. To ask why there is no interest in new combos, one would have to ask, WHO WILL RACE THEM??

01-10-2024, 08:20 PM	#9
AJ Laferty Junior Member Join Date: Dec 2013 Location: Elizabeth City, NC Posts: 47 Likes: 80 Liked 25 Times in 9 Posts	Re: Why is there no interest in all new combos This is a great thread. I am a class racer, just not a class drag racer. I am a class autocrosser. Now, before you scroll on, I wanted to chime in here about young racers. There is no shortage of young class racers, just young class drag racers. I can't swing a dead cat without hitting a young person at an autocross. But, autocross is more about driver skill than making power skill. Don't get me wrong, power certainly has it's place, but a great driver in a low power car will beat a lousy driver in a high power car every time in autocross. I think there is something to the idea that a class drag car really needs to be towed, but very few "street" (Sports Car Club of America (SCCA) equivalent to NHRA "stock") cars are towed to events. These are the same cars they commute to work/school and go on dates in. I will offer that a "street" class autocross car is pretty much a really stock car with only dampers, tires/wheels and cat back exhaust as allowed modifications. That keeps the costs a little lower i think. In drag racing, I would think the stock rule allowance creep over the years has an impact. Nobody, and I mean NOBODY talks about aftermarket lifters being allowed in "Street." The rules are just tighter and there may be an advantage there. Young drag racers, who are towing cars, need a tow vehicle and a trailer in addition to their race car. Many young people I know live in apartments where parking a tow vehicle/trailer and race car is just not practical, even if the young folks can afford it. So, "street" class autocross works well for them. (there is no shortage of towed autocross cars, just more street driven autocross cars at events than what I see even at street class bracket racing). So, I think part of the question that should be asked is not why aren't young people racing, they are, but what and how are they racing? The Solo (autocross) Nationals goes for 4 days and sells out at 1300+ competitors every year (sells out in hours if not minutes). Where was the last 1300 car drag race? So, there is something that is missing. (I can't even get young people to come out to street class bracket race regularly). Oh, and SCCA national competition, there is a maximum 30 year old car rule for the "street" class. Anything older has to go up a level in modification to continue competing. This is to discourage the advantage of a "unicorn" car combination which has not been available for decades. I am aware of the penalties of rulemaking, if this were to be applied to stock drag racing-many $100K cars would become worth very little and there would be a huge argument against it. But, 40 year old cars can cost a lot of money compared to 10-20 year old cars. Most "street" class are late models, which can be readily financed and I think there is probably some advantage there. I am not sure many late model stockers in the guide can be financed by average young people due to the cost (not to mention the insurance costs). The final point i would like to make is there is absolutely zero expectation of winning a purse in autocross. Sure, you may win a set of tires if you win class at a national event, but that's about it. No money. No expectation of covering the cost of entry or tow gas. None of that entire conversation. It's a hobby, why would anyone expect someone else to pay for your hobby? Autocross is not a spectator event so no paying crowd in the stands---pretty much like all the s/ss events I have attended. I didn't make this post to tout SCCA and autocrossing or bust anybody's chops, but to point out that young people are class racing, but in a different venue. Why is that? Answer that question and I think you'll be on your way to putting young butts in drag race cars. __________________ Jeff Laferty Suffolk, VA

01-10-2024, 08:43 PM	#10
DG Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Central Sierra's Posts: 164 Likes: 461 Liked 446 Times in 97 Posts	Re: Why is there no interest in all new combos AJ Laferty, I dabbled in autocross for a few years while taking a break from drag racing. Your observations are exactly what I noticed. Its a lot of fun for very little money. Best of all, you get their early in the morning and usually heading home by 2 pm the same day. Plus, an autocross can be run at pretty much any large parking lot or small airport. I will say, I think the local wednesday drags at Sacramento raceway had more young people participating than the autocross. Being competitive in autocross stock classes is a lot harder than it looks.