ATTN Sportsman Council Members and Racers - Page 4

Bryan Worner · 05-30-2008, 03:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike Pearson

I dont know about the rest of you But my combo has taken 2 HP hits in the last two seasons. It is not one of the obscure under factored combos like Bob Dennis runs. It is a 350 295/318 motor. now you want to shove another 2 tenths on us. That is the dumbist thing I have heard in a while. First of all that will not do anything for sand bagging. That has always been going on. If the sand baggers would just run their cars to there potential then the AFHS would work in its present state. The problem is not with the AFHS. its with the drivers that try to manipulate it by brake light racing. If you like hitting your brakes go circle track racing. The only thing lowering the indexes will accomplish is to keep new racers from building cars and starting to race S/SS. I know when I started running super stock it took quite a few years to make my car run consistently under the index. I guess all the old timers forget what it was like when yhey started out. Right now the car counts are way down. we need some real enhancements instead of something that will hurt our type of racing

Mike.....if the sandbaggers that run your combo ran all out, you would have even more horsepower!!! Lowering the indexes won't hurt anybody....but like previously mentioned, there has to be something done with the automatic trigger and how far under you must run to win class. If they lower the indexes .2 then we should do away with having to run .5 under to win class and the AHFS trigger should be 1.20 under, or maybe even lower.

I still believe we need to bring weather conditions into the equation! If we're making this performance based and don't want sandbagging, then we need to consider runs in both mineshaft conditions as well as real slow conditions. If someone runs 1.30 under at -800 ft DA, should that be considered the same as running 1.30 under at 3000 ft DA??? NO! So why penalize someone for racing in mineshaft conditions, especially at low altitude tracks! And why not penalize them for going that fast in dog**** conditions?

Don Himes · 05-30-2008, 04:15 PM

Maybe 1664SS/JA hit the nail right on the head with what's wrong with stock eliminator.......$6500 for heads..............What in the hell can you do to "stock" heads for $6500? We need another eliminator! All of the cheatin' bastards in it, then leave stock for the rest of us...........Wow, I've got to get back to the track soon........my heads gonna explode!

Ed Fernandez · 05-30-2008, 04:34 PM

In the end it's the guys who bent the rules too far AND NHRA for not having the balls to call them on it.
So we have some of our fellow racers who caused this mess.Another fun day in NHRA drag racing.

Ed F.

seb · 05-30-2008, 05:47 PM

All you guys have a point or are correct in some things you are saying. I have
been racing NHRA since 1973 (I think) and have heard the same old things
being said and have said some of them myself since I started racing NHRA.
The point being that we are never going to agree on all the things that are or
are not changed. So, lets race or stay at home and bracket race but always
be civil to each other no matter what our positions because it will never change.
Some will be for changes others will be for the status quo.
Personally, I'm just glad to be able to go occasionally and enjoy getting to see
old friends and make a few passes down the track.

S.E.Buchanan
4708 Stock
4777 Super/Stock

Alan Roehrich · 05-30-2008, 06:08 PM

If you pay $6500 for a set of Stock heads, I hope they pick you up at least 5 tenths. We bought a BRAND NEW set of heads last Fall, NEW castings and ALL new parts, it was well under $4000, and included gaskets and spark plugs even.

And NHRA is NOT going back to the old rules because they have no desire to spend time and money to enforce them. So we'll have to live with what we have. As far as that subject goes, we can only lobby against additional changes of that nature.

Alan Roehrich · 05-30-2008, 08:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1664SSJA

Hang on a second here...... indexes were being talked about....... it was said that people should spend the money to race class or get out...

I was talking 6500 for SUPER STOCK heads/intake....... if I wanted to go from 6-7 under to 1 or more under... and *I* couldn't afford it.......

Wasn't necessarily talking about you. Was actually addressing several points others made.

John Duzac · 05-30-2008, 08:42 PM

I agree with S.E. Buchanan: Just being able to go to the races and see old friends and make a few passes. And along the way, it would be nice to go a few rounds. Looking forward to the Memphis points meet...

SS Engine Guy · 05-30-2008, 10:59 PM

Several have mentioned going back to real racing and a performance eliminator. Well that would be heads up off the index or record. Sounds fine to me! Lower the index? To hell with the index. As Mr. Beard said its all realative. Until you correctly factor the combinations you won't change a thing. Lower the index 1 second and all you will have is a select bunch of underfactored cars patting each other on the back trying to make themselves feel good because they couldn't make middle of the field in todays events if factors were fairly considered and applied where necessary.

Mike Fuller · 05-30-2008, 11:21 PM

My vote is to lower the index .2, and make the automatic hit at1.3 under. I have one of the combo's with the afterrmarket parts. I am forced to use these parts bcause I feel the need to keep up with everyone else. I will make a point to talk to Greg Hill at the Joiliet points meet to let him know my opinion,although it may be after the fact by then.Lets make Stock Eliminator participants work a little harder in order to be part of the game.

Dick Butler · 05-31-2008, 07:22 AM

Three issues being discussed in this thread rolled into one
1) Moving the index down ---- PURELY cosmetic it does not affect any other part of S or SS.
2) Poorly factored cars ----MOVING the trigger is THE answer if NHRA will not or cannot factor more correctly when combinations begin to run. It needs to be less far under the index to make a difference that will be seen. If the index moves down for cosmetic appearance then trigger needs to move the same amount and more. If the index drops .2 then trigger needs to decrease .3.(to start with, .4 would be better)
3) Costs of racing is the third subject of the thread. Thats racing, Upgrades occur . Work with them or dont. It will not go back to the old ways. Most things added are an improvement to equipment.

05-30-2008, 04:15 PM	#32
Don Himes Member Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Port Charlotte, Fla. Posts: 160 Likes: 0 Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: ATTN Sportsman Council Members and Racers Maybe 1664SS/JA hit the nail right on the head with what's wrong with stock eliminator.......$6500 for heads..............What in the hell can you do to "stock" heads for $6500? We need another eliminator! All of the cheatin' bastards in it, then leave stock for the rest of us...........Wow, I've got to get back to the track soon........my heads gonna explode! __________________ Don Himes 2075

05-30-2008, 04:34 PM	#33
Ed Fernandez Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: NOO JOISEY nexta NOO YAWK Posts: 5,879 Likes: 38 Liked 100 Times in 45 Posts	Re: ATTN Sportsman Council Members and Racers In the end it's the guys who bent the rules too far AND NHRA for not having the balls to call them on it. So we have some of our fellow racers who caused this mess.Another fun day in NHRA drag racing. Ed F. __________________ Former NHRA #1945 Former IHRA #1945 T/SA

05-30-2008, 05:47 PM	#34
seb Junior Member Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Arkadelphia,Ar Posts: 32 Likes: 0 Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: ATTN Sportsman Council Members and Racers All you guys have a point or are correct in some things you are saying. I have been racing NHRA since 1973 (I think) and have heard the same old things being said and have said some of them myself since I started racing NHRA. The point being that we are never going to agree on all the things that are or are not changed. So, lets race or stay at home and bracket race but always be civil to each other no matter what our positions because it will never change. Some will be for changes others will be for the status quo. Personally, I'm just glad to be able to go occasionally and enjoy getting to see old friends and make a few passes down the track. S.E.Buchanan 4708 Stock 4777 Super/Stock

05-30-2008, 06:08 PM	#35
Alan Roehrich Veteran Member Join Date: May 2006 Location: Murfreesboro TN Posts: 5,116 Likes: 1,573 Liked 1,830 Times in 415 Posts	Re: ATTN Sportsman Council Members and Racers If you pay $6500 for a set of Stock heads, I hope they pick you up at least 5 tenths. We bought a BRAND NEW set of heads last Fall, NEW castings and ALL new parts, it was well under $4000, and included gaskets and spark plugs even. And NHRA is NOT going back to the old rules because they have no desire to spend time and money to enforce them. So we'll have to live with what we have. As far as that subject goes, we can only lobby against additional changes of that nature. __________________ Alan Roehrich 212A G/S

05-30-2008, 08:42 PM	#37
John Duzac Member Join Date: May 2005 Location: Covington, La Posts: 311 Likes: 63 Liked 83 Times in 20 Posts	Re: ATTN Sportsman Council Members and Racers I agree with S.E. Buchanan: Just being able to go to the races and see old friends and make a few passes. And along the way, it would be nice to go a few rounds. Looking forward to the Memphis points meet... __________________ John Duzac D/S 4448 STK

05-30-2008, 10:59 PM	#38
SS Engine Guy Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: usa Posts: 256 Likes: 1 Liked 1 Time in 1 Post	Re: ATTN Sportsman Council Members and Racers Several have mentioned going back to real racing and a performance eliminator. Well that would be heads up off the index or record. Sounds fine to me! Lower the index? To hell with the index. As Mr. Beard said its all realative. Until you correctly factor the combinations you won't change a thing. Lower the index 1 second and all you will have is a select bunch of underfactored cars patting each other on the back trying to make themselves feel good because they couldn't make middle of the field in todays events if factors were fairly considered and applied where necessary.

05-30-2008, 11:21 PM	#39
Mike Fuller Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 952 Likes: 567 Liked 198 Times in 79 Posts	Re: ATTN Sportsman Council Members and Racers My vote is to lower the index .2, and make the automatic hit at1.3 under. I have one of the combo's with the afterrmarket parts. I am forced to use these parts bcause I feel the need to keep up with everyone else. I will make a point to talk to Greg Hill at the Joiliet points meet to let him know my opinion,although it may be after the fact by then.Lets make Stock Eliminator participants work a little harder in order to be part of the game. __________________ Mike Fuller 396 STK 3961 SS

05-31-2008, 07:22 AM	#40
Dick Butler VIP Member Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Richmond Indiana Posts: 1,196 Likes: 5 Liked 32 Times in 19 Posts	Re: ATTN Sportsman Council Members and Racers Three issues being discussed in this thread rolled into one 1) Moving the index down ---- PURELY cosmetic it does not affect any other part of S or SS. 2) Poorly factored cars ----MOVING the trigger is THE answer if NHRA will not or cannot factor more correctly when combinations begin to run. It needs to be less far under the index to make a difference that will be seen. If the index moves down for cosmetic appearance then trigger needs to move the same amount and more. If the index drops .2 then trigger needs to decrease .3.(to start with, .4 would be better) 3) Costs of racing is the third subject of the thread. Thats racing, Upgrades occur . Work with them or dont. It will not go back to the old ways. Most things added are an improvement to equipment.