ATTN Sportsman Council Members and Racers

Mike Fuller · 05-30-2008, 11:21 PM

My vote is to lower the index .2, and make the automatic hit at1.3 under. I have one of the combo's with the afterrmarket parts. I am forced to use these parts bcause I feel the need to keep up with everyone else. I will make a point to talk to Greg Hill at the Joiliet points meet to let him know my opinion,although it may be after the fact by then.Lets make Stock Eliminator participants work a little harder in order to be part of the game.

Dick Butler · 05-31-2008, 07:22 AM

Three issues being discussed in this thread rolled into one
1) Moving the index down ---- PURELY cosmetic it does not affect any other part of S or SS.
2) Poorly factored cars ----MOVING the trigger is THE answer if NHRA will not or cannot factor more correctly when combinations begin to run. It needs to be less far under the index to make a difference that will be seen. If the index moves down for cosmetic appearance then trigger needs to move the same amount and more. If the index drops .2 then trigger needs to decrease .3.(to start with, .4 would be better)
3) Costs of racing is the third subject of the thread. Thats racing, Upgrades occur . Work with them or dont. It will not go back to the old ways. Most things added are an improvement to equipment.

Bruce Noland · 05-31-2008, 08:21 AM

Dick, in the real world of racing, reducing the indexes is not cosmetic. The changes have been a long time coming when you consider all of the "accepted" performance improvements. The change will provide some real relief to those of us who take performance seriously.

Alan Roehrich · 05-31-2008, 08:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ed OBrien

Alan
When you go back to stock rockers and lifters and rocker studs we will be even want to try that ? There is another way and that's to show up with roller rockers and when you get tore down and kicked take an attorney with you to the protest hearing and if I could get some backing for an attorney I'll do it . I don't think there misuse and abuse of the rule books over the years would get by in a court and the not for profit bean counters know it. Have a nice day

I never asked for roller rockers Ed, try reading. You just THINK we'll be even. Guess again. The car was just as fast with 7/16" rocker studs. And it only broke one. I can make the regular lifters work, too. Just another in a LONG list of things you are wrong about.

Ron Ortiz · 05-31-2008, 09:20 AM

Leave the indexes alone, get rid of the trigger. Go out and have some fun, let it run all the way out. Do not fear for running too fast. Do not worry about horsepower hits. Get rid of the trigger. (see "answers to the index, and performance" post)
For some reason you all are looking at this index thing the wrong way. It is the trigger that you all are worried about, so you think that lowering the index is going to protect your butt. HELLO IT IS THE TRIGGER, get rid of it

Ron Ortiz
U/SA this is too easy

Dick Butler · 05-31-2008, 09:41 AM

Bruce, I have to honestly ask what does changing the index do? are you proposing changing the trigger WITH the index change? By itself a change of Index only makes it "look worse" a run of 1.4 under on the old change is only 1.2 under an index dropped .2. Maybe I am missing your point but that makes it LESS likely to help with the HP problems and factoring. Thanks.

Mike Pearson · 05-31-2008, 10:14 AM

Byron,

i can just about guaratee you tht there is nobody sandbagging during class or a heads up run that are running the 350 295/318/322 combo. As i said previously that combo has taken 2 hp hits in the last 2 seasons. It is a very popular combo but rarley do yousee it as a #1 qualifier. The whole problem here is that it has become common practice for the racers with underfactored combo's to try to protect their combo from getting HP by sandbagging and excessive braking at the top end. What I am saying is that if we all run our cars to their potential we woulnt be having this discussion any more. NHRA or the advisory council just needs to decide how far uder the indexes they want us to run then set the automatic trigger to that level. If you are not running your car up to its potential then its not really a performanced based class.Byron, I respect you and your family as excellent racers everyone seems to like you guys. I always read any responses that have your name attached to it. Usually you have a real world comment to make. I am definatley not one of the top qualifiers or a threat to win class but I do enjoy SS racing as much as the rest of you. Lets not change things just for change sake unless it to better the sport for everyone involved not just a select few that want a change to benefit themselves. I hop[e to meet yo someday. I will look you up at the next race we both attend just to say hello.

Mike

55 Chevy · 05-31-2008, 10:43 AM

I have been out of it a long time so I may not know all the factors involved here.
What is the problem with getting rid of the trigger totally & leaving the indexes alone? The 55 year old seasoned veteran can run as quick as he wants so will now be at perhaps -1.6 rather than -1.3999 (& hard on the brakes).
The new comer just seeing if he wants to class race or simply go brackets can still compete. In many cases with these young guys if they can not be competitive fairly quickly they will go to e.t. never to return to class racing.
I recently attended my first points race in nearly fifteen years & there is a lot of gray hair in the Stock/Super Stock ranks but not a lot of new blood. Drop the indexes & the up & coming will go some where else to race leaving the S/SS ranks slowly diminishing as older racers retire from the sport.

art leong · 05-31-2008, 11:56 AM

I'm all for lowering the index's. But where does that leave the cars that make single passes for class. Will they still have to go 5 tenths under to get in the program, get the contingency money, and get the "walley"

Bruce Noland · 05-31-2008, 12:58 PM

Dick,

I'm not proposing a thing. But, I certainly wouldn't propose lowering the trigger after lowering the indexes. Then there would be no change at all. What are you after here? Are you ignoring twenty years worth of nhra accepted performance changes? Have you forgotten that Stock and Super Stock are meant to be performance based catagories? Are you still racing?

05-31-2008, 07:22 AM	#2
Dick Butler VIP Member Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Richmond Indiana Posts: 1,196 Likes: 5 Liked 32 Times in 19 Posts	Re: ATTN Sportsman Council Members and Racers Three issues being discussed in this thread rolled into one 1) Moving the index down ---- PURELY cosmetic it does not affect any other part of S or SS. 2) Poorly factored cars ----MOVING the trigger is THE answer if NHRA will not or cannot factor more correctly when combinations begin to run. It needs to be less far under the index to make a difference that will be seen. If the index moves down for cosmetic appearance then trigger needs to move the same amount and more. If the index drops .2 then trigger needs to decrease .3.(to start with, .4 would be better) 3) Costs of racing is the third subject of the thread. Thats racing, Upgrades occur . Work with them or dont. It will not go back to the old ways. Most things added are an improvement to equipment.

05-31-2008, 08:21 AM	#3
Bruce Noland VIP Member Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 1,855 Likes: 83 Liked 444 Times in 145 Posts	Re: ATTN Sportsman Council Members and Racers Dick, in the real world of racing, reducing the indexes is not cosmetic. The changes have been a long time coming when you consider all of the "accepted" performance improvements. The change will provide some real relief to those of us who take performance seriously. __________________ Bruce Noland 1788 STK

05-31-2008, 09:20 AM	#5
Ron Ortiz Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Englewood, Florida Posts: 989 Likes: 35 Liked 317 Times in 103 Posts	Re: ATTN Sportsman Council Members and Racers Leave the indexes alone, get rid of the trigger. Go out and have some fun, let it run all the way out. Do not fear for running too fast. Do not worry about horsepower hits. Get rid of the trigger. (see "answers to the index, and performance" post) For some reason you all are looking at this index thing the wrong way. It is the trigger that you all are worried about, so you think that lowering the index is going to protect your butt. HELLO IT IS THE TRIGGER, get rid of it Ron Ortiz U/SA this is too easy __________________ Ron Ortiz 2102 STK

05-31-2008, 09:41 AM	#6
Dick Butler VIP Member Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Richmond Indiana Posts: 1,196 Likes: 5 Liked 32 Times in 19 Posts	Re: ATTN Sportsman Council Members and Racers Bruce, I have to honestly ask what does changing the index do? are you proposing changing the trigger WITH the index change? By itself a change of Index only makes it "look worse" a run of 1.4 under on the old change is only 1.2 under an index dropped .2. Maybe I am missing your point but that makes it LESS likely to help with the HP problems and factoring. Thanks.

05-31-2008, 10:14 AM	#7
Mike Pearson VIP Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 2,456 Likes: 618 Liked 1,945 Times in 586 Posts	Re: ATTN Sportsman Council Members and Racers Byron, i can just about guaratee you tht there is nobody sandbagging during class or a heads up run that are running the 350 295/318/322 combo. As i said previously that combo has taken 2 hp hits in the last 2 seasons. It is a very popular combo but rarley do yousee it as a #1 qualifier. The whole problem here is that it has become common practice for the racers with underfactored combo's to try to protect their combo from getting HP by sandbagging and excessive braking at the top end. What I am saying is that if we all run our cars to their potential we woulnt be having this discussion any more. NHRA or the advisory council just needs to decide how far uder the indexes they want us to run then set the automatic trigger to that level. If you are not running your car up to its potential then its not really a performanced based class.Byron, I respect you and your family as excellent racers everyone seems to like you guys. I always read any responses that have your name attached to it. Usually you have a real world comment to make. I am definatley not one of the top qualifiers or a threat to win class but I do enjoy SS racing as much as the rest of you. Lets not change things just for change sake unless it to better the sport for everyone involved not just a select few that want a change to benefit themselves. I hop[e to meet yo someday. I will look you up at the next race we both attend just to say hello. Mike __________________ Mike Pearson 2485 SS

05-30-2008, 11:21 PM	#1
Mike Fuller Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 953 Likes: 572 Liked 203 Times in 80 Posts	Re: ATTN Sportsman Council Members and Racers My vote is to lower the index .2, and make the automatic hit at1.3 under. I have one of the combo's with the afterrmarket parts. I am forced to use these parts bcause I feel the need to keep up with everyone else. I will make a point to talk to Greg Hill at the Joiliet points meet to let him know my opinion,although it may be after the fact by then.Lets make Stock Eliminator participants work a little harder in order to be part of the game. __________________ Mike Fuller 396 STK 3961 SS

05-31-2008, 10:43 AM	#8
55 Chevy Member Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Calgary,Alberta area Posts: 229 Likes: 23 Liked 20 Times in 15 Posts	Re: ATTN Sportsman Council Members and Racers I have been out of it a long time so I may not know all the factors involved here. What is the problem with getting rid of the trigger totally & leaving the indexes alone? The 55 year old seasoned veteran can run as quick as he wants so will now be at perhaps -1.6 rather than -1.3999 (& hard on the brakes). The new comer just seeing if he wants to class race or simply go brackets can still compete. In many cases with these young guys if they can not be competitive fairly quickly they will go to e.t. never to return to class racing. I recently attended my first points race in nearly fifteen years & there is a lot of gray hair in the Stock/Super Stock ranks but not a lot of new blood. Drop the indexes & the up & coming will go some where else to race leaving the S/SS ranks slowly diminishing as older racers retire from the sport. Last edited by 55 Chevy; 05-31-2008 at 10:48 AM. Reason: wording

05-31-2008, 11:56 AM	#9
art leong VIP Member Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Richmond Hill, Georgia Posts: 2,003 Likes: 0 Liked 1 Time in 1 Post	Re: ATTN Sportsman Council Members and Racers I'm all for lowering the index's. But where does that leave the cars that make single passes for class. Will they still have to go 5 tenths under to get in the program, get the contingency money, and get the "walley" __________________ Art Leong 2095 SS

05-31-2008, 12:58 PM	#10
Bruce Noland VIP Member Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 1,855 Likes: 83 Liked 444 Times in 145 Posts	Re: ATTN Sportsman Council Members and Racers Dick, I'm not proposing a thing. But, I certainly wouldn't propose lowering the trigger after lowering the indexes. Then there would be no change at all. What are you after here? Are you ignoring twenty years worth of nhra accepted performance changes? Have you forgotten that Stock and Super Stock are meant to be performance based catagories? Are you still racing? __________________ Bruce Noland 1788 STK