ATTN Sportsman Council Members and Racers

[Dick Butler]

Bruce, I have to honestly ask what does changing the index do? are you proposing changing the trigger WITH the index change? By itself a change of Index only makes it "look worse" a run of 1.4 under on the old change is only 1.2 under an index dropped .2. Maybe I am missing your point but that makes it LESS likely to help with the HP problems and factoring. Thanks.

[Mike Pearson]

Byron,

i can just about guaratee you tht there is nobody sandbagging during class or a heads up run that are running the 350 295/318/322 combo. As i said previously that combo has taken 2 hp hits in the last 2 seasons. It is a very popular combo but rarley do yousee it as a #1 qualifier. The whole problem here is that it has become common practice for the racers with underfactored combo's to try to protect their combo from getting HP by sandbagging and excessive braking at the top end. What I am saying is that if we all run our cars to their potential we woulnt be having this discussion any more. NHRA or the advisory council just needs to decide how far uder the indexes they want us to run then set the automatic trigger to that level. If you are not running your car up to its potential then its not really a performanced based class.Byron, I respect you and your family as excellent racers everyone seems to like you guys. I always read any responses that have your name attached to it. Usually you have a real world comment to make. I am definatley not one of the top qualifiers or a threat to win class but I do enjoy SS racing as much as the rest of you. Lets not change things just for change sake unless it to better the sport for everyone involved not just a select few that want a change to benefit themselves. I hop[e to meet yo someday. I will look you up at the next race we both attend just to say hello.

Mike

[55 Chevy]

I have been out of it a long time so I may not know all the factors involved here.
What is the problem with getting rid of the trigger totally & leaving the indexes alone? The 55 year old seasoned veteran can run as quick as he wants so will now be at perhaps -1.6 rather than -1.3999 (& hard on the brakes).
The new comer just seeing if he wants to class race or simply go brackets can still compete. In many cases with these young guys if they can not be competitive fairly quickly they will go to e.t. never to return to class racing.
I recently attended my first points race in nearly fifteen years & there is a lot of gray hair in the Stock/Super Stock ranks but not a lot of new blood. Drop the indexes & the up & coming will go some where else to race leaving the S/SS ranks slowly diminishing as older racers retire from the sport.

[art leong]

I'm all for lowering the index's. But where does that leave the cars that make single passes for class. Will they still have to go 5 tenths under to get in the program, get the contingency money, and get the "walley"

[Bruce Noland]

Dick,

I'm not proposing a thing. But, I certainly wouldn't propose lowering the trigger after lowering the indexes. Then there would be no change at all. What are you after here? Are you ignoring twenty years worth of nhra accepted performance changes? Have you forgotten that Stock and Super Stock are meant to be performance based catagories? Are you still racing?

[Dick Butler]

Bruce you are missing it. If you leave the trigger 1.4 it makes the fast cars able to run FASTER and not get factored not slower.
Old index 11.00 old trigger -1.4 . a run of 9.6 gets hit.
New index 10.8 same factor -1.4 now the car has to run 9.40 to get hit. That makes the AHFS WORSE not better.
My thought is if people want to make AHFS work faster to factor bogus motors etc then if the index is dropped to 10.80 for a class the trigger has to be decreased the same .2 to -1.2 under to keep the same 9.60 run getting factored. I think the trigger is what needs the adjustment maybe as much as down to -1.00 under gets hit.(assuming a drop of index of .2)
Honestly we are just talking because the fast combinations will just be babied as most dont have to run all out since class racing is RARE so they dont NEED to run to win anything. Just change the shoe polish and ride the brakes..
TOP/STK is where you can see racing today.

[Mike Meier]

Why don't all you guys who are for dropping the index just change the letter on your windows and jump up a class instead of punishing the low budget guys? Some of us here don't hide 4 tenths by merely short-shifting or carrying extra weight.

[SSDiv6]

Originally Posted by Mike Meier

Why don't all you guys who are for dropping the index just change the letter on your windows and jump up a class instead of punishing the low budget guys? Some of us here don't hide 4 tenths by merely short-shifting or carrying extra weight.

Mike...Stock and Super Stock has always been a performance class. To be honest with you, since the inception of the class in the 1950's, the bitching and complaints among racers has been the same.. The difference from the early days to now is the enforcement of rules; rules were enforced by Farmer and company and you could get horsepower just by sneezing too loud. There has always been racers that had the advantage over others; especially those that had factory sponsorships and access to parts and cars that others did not have. Those were the days of the factory wars.

In the early days, the factory wars were not in Top Fuel, Funny car or Pro Stock; the wars took place in Stock and Super Stock. The AFX class gave birth to the Funny Car class. Stock and Super Stock gave birth to Pro Stock. Therefore, nothing has changed, except that the class has evolved with technology advances and the economy.

I can still remember the days I could buy a Holley 1850 from Gratiot Supply for $18.95 or buy a set of Cyclone headers for $29.95, or buy a set of Crane Cams ported AMC ported cylinder heads for $395.00. The cost of parts on those days were in accordance to the economy, the same as today.

What are dealing is with an enforcement issue.

[hadtobethere]

Originally Posted by Mike Meier

Why don't all you guys who are for dropping the index just change the letter on your windows and jump up a class instead of punishing the low budget guys? Some of us here don't hide 4 tenths by merely short-shifting or carrying extra weight.

Mike, many racers want to run flat out, but because of the so-called HP factoring system, they don't for the simple fact that they will get horsepower....are all combos created equal?...no, and they never will be...will the HP factors ever be correct, NEVER have, and NEVER will be, with or without a automatic factoring system.

Should a guy that has a fast car be penalized for working hard, being a bit sharper, oh, and yes maybe spending more money on his combo than the next guy, NO....he should be able to run hard, as fast as he can go without the dreaded Automatic HP factoring system......review performance as needed, could be done, with common sense HP factors, can be done without a so-called system.

Let Stock/SS be what it should be, the way it was intended, a performance class....nobody ever said that drag racing was for everyone...some people still go bowling.

[Mike Meier]

You've gotta be F-ing kidding me? You people act like these -1.4 under guys are the VICTIMS. You guys have the dough to go that far under but GOD FORBID they factor you guys to what you really are and bump you up ONE MEASLY class. Why should YOU get the privledge of running all-out without penalty while the low-buck guys lose 2 tenths that we'll never get back? The funny thing is that you guys are all gung-ho to knock off a few tenths and not hit these runaway combos with the HP they deserve, but if a guy like Art Leong goes -2.00 in a FWD you hypocrites will start with the old "WAH-WAH-WAH! Hit 'em with 20HP!!!!"

Don't get me wrong, I am not trying to be lazy. I look forward to when I finally get a heads up run......against a car that is REALLY evenly matched, not sandbagging 5 tenths and should really be 2 classes above me.