ATTN Sportsman Council Members and Racers - Page 6

Bruce Noland · 05-31-2008, 08:06 PM

Dick,
I think you are missing "it." The new trigger for an automatic hit is -1.30 with the lowered indexes. The -1.15 trigger for reviews will and should stay in place. It appears you are choosing to ignore all the other factors that entered into the index reductions. nhra set the mark when they announced the 10.90 index for the AA classes. Lowering the indexes is good for class racing. Who knows - class racing may become fun again.

gofastorgohome · 05-31-2008, 08:49 PM

Lower the indexes at least to where they were before NHRA added .2 in the 80's. There have been enough performance gains that it will not take much to run the index. Anybody else think it is ridiculous that so many cars run more than a second under? There is no entitlement to run your index just because you want to class race. Go to work and bracket race until your combo is ready. It is a performance based class not a participation based class.

SSDiv6 · 05-31-2008, 09:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike Meier

Why don't all you guys who are for dropping the index just change the letter on your windows and jump up a class instead of punishing the low budget guys? Some of us here don't hide 4 tenths by merely short-shifting or carrying extra weight.

Mike...Stock and Super Stock has always been a performance class. To be honest with you, since the inception of the class in the 1950's, the bitching and complaints among racers has been the same.. The difference from the early days to now is the enforcement of rules; rules were enforced by Farmer and company and you could get horsepower just by sneezing too loud. There has always been racers that had the advantage over others; especially those that had factory sponsorships and access to parts and cars that others did not have. Those were the days of the factory wars.

In the early days, the factory wars were not in Top Fuel, Funny car or Pro Stock; the wars took place in Stock and Super Stock. The AFX class gave birth to the Funny Car class. Stock and Super Stock gave birth to Pro Stock. Therefore, nothing has changed, except that the class has evolved with technology advances and the economy.

I can still remember the days I could buy a Holley 1850 from Gratiot Supply for $18.95 or buy a set of Cyclone headers for $29.95, or buy a set of Crane Cams ported AMC ported cylinder heads for $395.00. The cost of parts on those days were in accordance to the economy, the same as today.

What are dealing is with an enforcement issue.

stefan callender · 05-31-2008, 09:32 PM

Why should there be a AHFS system anyway??? This is a performance class isnt it? It doesnt matter what you do, the fast guys will be fast anyway. Ive been involved in Super Stock for 20 years, and the fast guys back then that are still racing are still fast, with different combinations, cars and classes. Its the way it is. I think its a shame that everyone has to sandbag and cant let it loose at will. What difference does it make, how many heads up runs, besides class do you have all year??

SSDiv6 · 05-31-2008, 09:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stefan callender

Why should there be a AHFS system anyway??? This is a performance class isnt it? It doesnt matter what you do, the fast guys will be fast anyway. Ive been involved in Super Stock for 20 years, and the fast guys back then that are still racing are still fast, with different combinations, cars and classes. Its the way it is. I think its a shame that everyone has to sandbag and cant let it loose at will. What difference does it make, how many heads up runs, besides class do you have all year??

Yep...I agree...I have been involved in the sport in one way or another for the past 42 years...and the story not changed that much and the complaints are the same...

hadtobethere · 05-31-2008, 09:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike Meier

Why don't all you guys who are for dropping the index just change the letter on your windows and jump up a class instead of punishing the low budget guys? Some of us here don't hide 4 tenths by merely short-shifting or carrying extra weight.

Mike, many racers want to run flat out, but because of the so-called HP factoring system, they don't for the simple fact that they will get horsepower....are all combos created equal?...no, and they never will be...will the HP factors ever be correct, NEVER have, and NEVER will be, with or without a automatic factoring system.

Should a guy that has a fast car be penalized for working hard, being a bit sharper, oh, and yes maybe spending more money on his combo than the next guy, NO....he should be able to run hard, as fast as he can go without the dreaded Automatic HP factoring system......review performance as needed, could be done, with common sense HP factors, can be done without a so-called system.

Let Stock/SS be what it should be, the way it was intended, a performance class....nobody ever said that drag racing was for everyone...some people still go bowling.

Mike Meier · 05-31-2008, 11:16 PM

You've gotta be F-ing kidding me? You people act like these -1.4 under guys are the VICTIMS. You guys have the dough to go that far under but GOD FORBID they factor you guys to what you really are and bump you up ONE MEASLY class. Why should YOU get the privledge of running all-out without penalty while the low-buck guys lose 2 tenths that we'll never get back? The funny thing is that you guys are all gung-ho to knock off a few tenths and not hit these runaway combos with the HP they deserve, but if a guy like Art Leong goes -2.00 in a FWD you hypocrites will start with the old "WAH-WAH-WAH! Hit 'em with 20HP!!!!"

Don't get me wrong, I am not trying to be lazy. I look forward to when I finally get a heads up run......against a car that is REALLY evenly matched, not sandbagging 5 tenths and should really be 2 classes above me.

stefan callender · 06-01-2008, 12:12 AM

Mike be for real. There are other classes in racing, maybe stock or superstock isnt the class for you. Maybe you should run superstreet or supergas where everyone is basically equal. You can leave the line, shut off and come on strong on the big end. No exotic parts, mostly cookie cutter combos, and you will be happy. It should even be a little cheaper if you dont go nuts. Performance classes takes hard work, money and some know how to stay on top. I applaud guys like Art, build the softest thing you can build. If you were building a motor, would you build the hardest hit combo or the softest?? Cost around the same. I guess I should start bitchin to NHRA to give me a break because I want to run Pro stock with some old piece of **** car from 1995 and be competitive. Maybe they will put a AHFS for me too. Where else can you even play in the same class as multimillionaires and have a chance to beat them, maybe not heads up but still be in the game?? No where else.

SS Engine Guy · 06-01-2008, 12:57 AM

I would build what I felt was the hardest. That way the satisfaction of achievement is there. Nobody that knows anything about the mechanical end of this would feel good about having the biggest bunny out there. And there are a hell of alot of bunnies hopping around these days. Art chose, in my opinion, the hard way. Not to go down the beaten path. If he works hard and plays his cards right which I think he will, he will be rewarded by a since of accomplisment much better than any win because he will know what HE did.

SSDiv6 · 06-01-2008, 01:32 AM

The fact is that racers are never happy. If a racer finds a soft combination, goes fast, then a lot of other racers start to complain with statements such as:

1. Is that combination legal?

2. Was that car built?

3. That car is bogus; they never built it.

4. He or She is cheating.

Gues what!!! There are lots of smart racers that spend the time looking the books to see what is available or untried. Most racers do not want to spend the time with an untried combination, or do not want to take the risk because they feel that is cheaper to build a car that a lot of others race. However, there are many that build the same combination and realize they are not competitive. The reason?...those combinations have been flogged to death!!!

Every time Bob Shaw builds a new car, and goes fast, many racers start to complain just like when he raced the El Camino and the Caddy with the F.I. Oldsmobile engine. People complained when Mark built the Mustang with the 4-Cyl Turbo engine...people complained when Neil Smedley built the Pontiac 301-Turbo Trans Am...other complain about Bob Dennis when he builds a new Oldsmobile combination in SS class...other will complain when someone builds a Boss 429 Mustang for AA/S class...others will complain when someone build a Cosworth Vega...I could continue with lots of other S and SS combinations that have not been built that show lots of potential.

Like the adage says: "Speed costs money...how fast you want to go/" or "Racing - "It's the most powerful solvent in the world. It dissolves marriages and checking accounts instantly."

05-31-2008, 08:06 PM	#51
Bruce Noland VIP Member Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 1,855 Likes: 83 Liked 444 Times in 145 Posts	Re: ATTN Sportsman Council Members and Racers Dick, I think you are missing "it." The new trigger for an automatic hit is -1.30 with the lowered indexes. The -1.15 trigger for reviews will and should stay in place. It appears you are choosing to ignore all the other factors that entered into the index reductions. nhra set the mark when they announced the 10.90 index for the AA classes. Lowering the indexes is good for class racing. Who knows - class racing may become fun again. __________________ Bruce Noland 1788 STK

05-31-2008, 08:49 PM	#52
gofastorgohome Junior Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 11 Likes: 0 Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: ATTN Sportsman Council Members and Racers Lower the indexes at least to where they were before NHRA added .2 in the 80's. There have been enough performance gains that it will not take much to run the index. Anybody else think it is ridiculous that so many cars run more than a second under? There is no entitlement to run your index just because you want to class race. Go to work and bracket race until your combo is ready. It is a performance based class not a participation based class.

05-31-2008, 09:32 PM	#54
stefan callender Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: zoo york Posts: 572 Likes: 3 Liked 2 Times in 2 Posts	Re: ATTN Sportsman Council Members and Racers Why should there be a AHFS system anyway??? This is a performance class isnt it? It doesnt matter what you do, the fast guys will be fast anyway. Ive been involved in Super Stock for 20 years, and the fast guys back then that are still racing are still fast, with different combinations, cars and classes. Its the way it is. I think its a shame that everyone has to sandbag and cant let it loose at will. What difference does it make, how many heads up runs, besides class do you have all year?? Last edited by stefan callender; 05-31-2008 at 09:35 PM.

05-31-2008, 11:16 PM	#57
Mike Meier Member Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Webster, TX Posts: 318 Likes: 132 Liked 41 Times in 9 Posts	Re: ATTN Sportsman Council Members and Racers You've gotta be F-ing kidding me? You people act like these -1.4 under guys are the VICTIMS. You guys have the dough to go that far under but GOD FORBID they factor you guys to what you really are and bump you up ONE MEASLY class. Why should YOU get the privledge of running all-out without penalty while the low-buck guys lose 2 tenths that we'll never get back? The funny thing is that you guys are all gung-ho to knock off a few tenths and not hit these runaway combos with the HP they deserve, but if a guy like Art Leong goes -2.00 in a FWD you hypocrites will start with the old "WAH-WAH-WAH! Hit 'em with 20HP!!!!" Don't get me wrong, I am not trying to be lazy. I look forward to when I finally get a heads up run......against a car that is REALLY evenly matched, not sandbagging 5 tenths and should really be 2 classes above me. __________________ Mike Meier "World's most expensive DF/S" 2007 Chevy Cobalt....because suffering through owning an AMC Stocker wasn't enough

06-01-2008, 12:12 AM	#58
stefan callender Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: zoo york Posts: 572 Likes: 3 Liked 2 Times in 2 Posts	Re: ATTN Sportsman Council Members and Racers Mike be for real. There are other classes in racing, maybe stock or superstock isnt the class for you. Maybe you should run superstreet or supergas where everyone is basically equal. You can leave the line, shut off and come on strong on the big end. No exotic parts, mostly cookie cutter combos, and you will be happy. It should even be a little cheaper if you dont go nuts. Performance classes takes hard work, money and some know how to stay on top. I applaud guys like Art, build the softest thing you can build. If you were building a motor, would you build the hardest hit combo or the softest?? Cost around the same. I guess I should start bitchin to NHRA to give me a break because I want to run Pro stock with some old piece of **** car from 1995 and be competitive. Maybe they will put a AHFS for me too. Where else can you even play in the same class as multimillionaires and have a chance to beat them, maybe not heads up but still be in the game?? No where else.

06-01-2008, 12:57 AM	#59
SS Engine Guy Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: usa Posts: 256 Likes: 1 Liked 1 Time in 1 Post	Re: ATTN Sportsman Council Members and Racers I would build what I felt was the hardest. That way the satisfaction of achievement is there. Nobody that knows anything about the mechanical end of this would feel good about having the biggest bunny out there. And there are a hell of alot of bunnies hopping around these days. Art chose, in my opinion, the hard way. Not to go down the beaten path. If he works hard and plays his cards right which I think he will, he will be rewarded by a since of accomplisment much better than any win because he will know what HE did.

06-01-2008, 01:32 AM	#60
SSDiv6 VIP Member Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Glendale, Arizona Posts: 3,045 Likes: 712 Liked 1,604 Times in 583 Posts	Re: ATTN Sportsman Council Members and Racers The fact is that racers are never happy. If a racer finds a soft combination, goes fast, then a lot of other racers start to complain with statements such as: 1. Is that combination legal? 2. Was that car built? 3. That car is bogus; they never built it. 4. He or She is cheating. Gues what!!! There are lots of smart racers that spend the time looking the books to see what is available or untried. Most racers do not want to spend the time with an untried combination, or do not want to take the risk because they feel that is cheaper to build a car that a lot of others race. However, there are many that build the same combination and realize they are not competitive. The reason?...those combinations have been flogged to death!!! Every time Bob Shaw builds a new car, and goes fast, many racers start to complain just like when he raced the El Camino and the Caddy with the F.I. Oldsmobile engine. People complained when Mark built the Mustang with the 4-Cyl Turbo engine...people complained when Neil Smedley built the Pontiac 301-Turbo Trans Am...other complain about Bob Dennis when he builds a new Oldsmobile combination in SS class...other will complain when someone builds a Boss 429 Mustang for AA/S class...others will complain when someone build a Cosworth Vega...I could continue with lots of other S and SS combinations that have not been built that show lots of potential. Like the adage says: "Speed costs money...how fast you want to go/" or "Racing - "It's the most powerful solvent in the world. It dissolves marriages and checking accounts instantly." Last edited by SSDiv6; 06-01-2008 at 01:53 AM.