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Old 05-31-2008, 09:50 PM   #1
hadtobethere
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Talking Re: ATTN Sportsman Council Members and Racers

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Meier View Post
Why don't all you guys who are for dropping the index just change the letter on your windows and jump up a class instead of punishing the low budget guys? Some of us here don't hide 4 tenths by merely short-shifting or carrying extra weight.
Mike, many racers want to run flat out, but because of the so-called HP factoring system, they don't for the simple fact that they will get horsepower....are all combos created equal?...no, and they never will be...will the HP factors ever be correct, NEVER have, and NEVER will be, with or without a automatic factoring system.

Should a guy that has a fast car be penalized for working hard, being a bit sharper, oh, and yes maybe spending more money on his combo than the next guy, NO....he should be able to run hard, as fast as he can go without the dreaded Automatic HP factoring system......review performance as needed, could be done, with common sense HP factors, can be done without a so-called system.

Let Stock/SS be what it should be, the way it was intended, a performance class....nobody ever said that drag racing was for everyone...some people still go bowling.

Last edited by hadtobethere; 05-31-2008 at 09:58 PM. Reason: spell
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Old 05-31-2008, 11:16 PM   #2
Mike Meier
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Default Re: ATTN Sportsman Council Members and Racers

You've gotta be F-ing kidding me? You people act like these -1.4 under guys are the VICTIMS. You guys have the dough to go that far under but GOD FORBID they factor you guys to what you really are and bump you up ONE MEASLY class. Why should YOU get the privledge of running all-out without penalty while the low-buck guys lose 2 tenths that we'll never get back? The funny thing is that you guys are all gung-ho to knock off a few tenths and not hit these runaway combos with the HP they deserve, but if a guy like Art Leong goes -2.00 in a FWD you hypocrites will start with the old "WAH-WAH-WAH! Hit 'em with 20HP!!!!"

Don't get me wrong, I am not trying to be lazy. I look forward to when I finally get a heads up run......against a car that is REALLY evenly matched, not sandbagging 5 tenths and should really be 2 classes above me.
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Old 06-01-2008, 12:12 AM   #3
stefan callender
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Default Re: ATTN Sportsman Council Members and Racers

Mike be for real. There are other classes in racing, maybe stock or superstock isnt the class for you. Maybe you should run superstreet or supergas where everyone is basically equal. You can leave the line, shut off and come on strong on the big end. No exotic parts, mostly cookie cutter combos, and you will be happy. It should even be a little cheaper if you dont go nuts. Performance classes takes hard work, money and some know how to stay on top. I applaud guys like Art, build the softest thing you can build. If you were building a motor, would you build the hardest hit combo or the softest?? Cost around the same. I guess I should start bitchin to NHRA to give me a break because I want to run Pro stock with some old piece of **** car from 1995 and be competitive. Maybe they will put a AHFS for me too. Where else can you even play in the same class as multimillionaires and have a chance to beat them, maybe not heads up but still be in the game?? No where else.
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Old 06-01-2008, 12:57 AM   #4
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Default Re: ATTN Sportsman Council Members and Racers

I would build what I felt was the hardest. That way the satisfaction of achievement is there. Nobody that knows anything about the mechanical end of this would feel good about having the biggest bunny out there. And there are a hell of alot of bunnies hopping around these days. Art chose, in my opinion, the hard way. Not to go down the beaten path. If he works hard and plays his cards right which I think he will, he will be rewarded by a since of accomplisment much better than any win because he will know what HE did.
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Old 06-01-2008, 01:32 AM   #5
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Default Re: ATTN Sportsman Council Members and Racers

The fact is that racers are never happy. If a racer finds a soft combination, goes fast, then a lot of other racers start to complain with statements such as:

1. Is that combination legal?

2. Was that car built?

3. That car is bogus; they never built it.

4. He or She is cheating.

Gues what!!! There are lots of smart racers that spend the time looking the books to see what is available or untried. Most racers do not want to spend the time with an untried combination, or do not want to take the risk because they feel that is cheaper to build a car that a lot of others race. However, there are many that build the same combination and realize they are not competitive. The reason?...those combinations have been flogged to death!!!

Every time Bob Shaw builds a new car, and goes fast, many racers start to complain just like when he raced the El Camino and the Caddy with the F.I. Oldsmobile engine. People complained when Mark built the Mustang with the 4-Cyl Turbo engine...people complained when Neil Smedley built the Pontiac 301-Turbo Trans Am...other complain about Bob Dennis when he builds a new Oldsmobile combination in SS class...other will complain when someone builds a Boss 429 Mustang for AA/S class...others will complain when someone build a Cosworth Vega...I could continue with lots of other S and SS combinations that have not been built that show lots of potential.

Like the adage says: "Speed costs money...how fast you want to go/" or "Racing - "It's the most powerful solvent in the world. It dissolves marriages and checking accounts instantly."

Last edited by SSDiv6; 06-01-2008 at 01:53 AM.
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Old 06-01-2008, 01:45 AM   #6
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Default Re: ATTN Sportsman Council Members and Racers

So lets just say N.H.R.A. drops all indexes by .2 so that the guy now running -1.39 is -1.19. But he will no longer be on the brakes cause he wants do be # 1 qualifier so his car is now -1.35 & close to be getting hit again if he is not careful. What now?
Would someone please tell me what the problem is with getting rid of the trigger or lowering it to say -1.6 & leaving the indexes where they are? That way the fast guys could go hard all the way & still qualify near the top where they do now. The guys at bottom are unaffected.
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Old 06-01-2008, 07:46 AM   #7
Bruce Noland
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Default Re: ATTN Sportsman Council Members and Racers

-1.60 for an automatic hit does not help class racing because the trigger for reviews is still -1.15 at national events.

99% of all the races are all-run events. The slower racers still have at least three options on the lower indexes; not in any particular order.

1.) Work on your car.

2.) Pick another combination.

3.) Seek relief from the current ahfs god if you are really into a dead end combination.
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Old 06-01-2008, 02:18 PM   #8
Lynn A McCarty
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Default Re: ATTN Sportsman Council Members and Racers

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bruce Noland View Post
-1.60 for an automatic hit does not help class racing because the trigger for reviews is still -1.15 at national events.

99% of all the races are all-run events. The slower racers still have at least three options on the lower indexes; not in any particular order.

1.) Work on your car.

2.) Pick another combination.

3.) Seek relief from the current ahfs god if you are really into a dead end combination.
Bruce,

You miss the main point of your own premise. How much must you hit to bring a 1.6 under combo into check? I know one engine that has been hit 45HP since 1996. It is still one of the softest combos around.

The real issue is that AHFS is better than nothing, but it really doesnt address the real problems. It is statistically invalid, and statistically ineffective for the gross inadequacies. If a car runs 1.6 under and it isnt grossly done in a mine shaft, it probably should get at least 30HP or 40HP.

Do you know how bogus an engine has to be average 1.15 under? All events follow a 6-sigma spread around the average. So that means 1/2 the cars run faster than 1.15 under? How truly bogus!

The current system is wrong and needs to be changed. I have described some appropriate measures many times.
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Old 06-01-2008, 07:46 AM   #9
stefan callender
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Default Re: ATTN Sportsman Council Members and Racers

Plus NO ONE is watching the qualifying sheet lately, The guys qualifying at the top are mostly modified cars now. The guys that can go 140 plus.(MPH) Soon this will be dominated by comp cars. Something else for you guys to bitch about. No one will ever be happy. By the way, SS engine guy, who are you, and what car do you run? By the way, you wont find my name on a qualifying sheet, so dont ask.
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Old 06-01-2008, 11:10 AM   #10
Arnold Greene
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Default Re: ATTN Sportsman Council Members and Racers

First of all, I haven't raced NHRA in three years, so my opinion doesn't count for much. It appears to me that the burden(ahfs) in stock and superstock is being placed on the wrong group of people. Why should someone be penalized for using the rules, determined by the sanctioning body, to go fast? This is the goal in a performance class. If a combination in a particular class is deemed not competitive, then take 5 horsepower (or whatever # is deemed appropriate) off the combination. Let these folks work at that weight to get competitive just like the fast guy had to work. Don't just add weight to slow the fast guy down. That's how we ended up with 3700# Camaros and Cudas.

Like some have said, class racing may not be for everybody. It is not a 'right' to be able to run the index, much less, go fast. The way the system works now, you might as well do away with the class designations on the windows, and just put on the dial in.
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