And you thought air/ electrical shifters in stockers was ?..

[tstickff]

Originally Posted by Jared Jordan

Personally, I?m more concerned about mystery buttons in the interior and cars that stutter and break up in high gear while they miraculously run dead on the dial.

ive been saying for years, when will electronics be looked at? problem is who actually knows what to look for? now with all these racepacs, sensors,driveshaft speed sensors, what do you protest? also think they should eliminate allowing cell phones recording directly behind racecars on the starting line. just my .002

Tim Stickles

[james schaechter]

Originally Posted by Cglrcng

The correct terminology used in General Regulations 4.5 is "beam breaker." Which is where Section 11A Stock directs you to concerning Ground Clearance. And I studied a whole host of well over 125 Stock/S.S. cars and saw a whole host of others (more than half of those looked at live and in pictures had some rendition of beam breakers (either added or natural in under body types and styles), and General Regulations 4.5 allows the addition of a "beam breaker" as long as it does not extend farther out from the farthest forward point of the body or bumper. (Certain classes do allow it in front of that point). And also satisfies the 3" (on track), ground clearance rule from front of body to 12"
behind front axle centerline.

If you think I am the only one out there, then you need to pay a lot more attention to the classes and look at more than just the slowest NHRA Stock Eliminator car in the world.

Some are mere oil pan warming cords looped from oil pan up to the top of the grill, some are actual additions in sheet metal to the lower front body fender panels, many are not quite as pronounced and evident as mine is, but they are there none the less on a great many Stock and Super Stockers.

What they told you was not quite the correct direction or answer (as I would have whipped out my phone, shown you that per the rule book, both Section 11A, and General Regulations Section 4.5 where11A directs us to look further, that you too can run a "beam breaker"), if you
had taken the time and asked me directly (instead of running off to ask tech if I was legal), it is legal as now written. After careful study of many other cars in the class, and seeing so many different renditions of front end beam breakers in Stock/ Super Stock/ Comp/ and others...I counted over 35 different types and styles before deciding to avail. myself of adding one as pronounced as mine is.

I only added it because it was legal, and if I hit the brakes at the stripe there is both a front air dam (below the bumoer and back a few inches, and further back under the radiator, a foot there is a lower
air deflector that both can easily trigger the breaking of the finish line beams.

Added only to assure that the finish line
stripe "beam break" is consistently at the same place whether I am dead in it or on the brakes. It is installed a few inches behind the farthest point forward of the bumper, and directly under the front leading edge of the lower and farther back air dam. It is very pronounced and not hidden like I have witnessed of many other lower additions.

Maybe that is what drew your specific attention to mine (like it was the only one out there or something). Pssssst, I am by far not alone in the use of the as of now at least (legal "beam breaking" aid). Start studying some Stockers in the lanes and in pics readily available here and elsewhere on the web. When you actually look, some will jump out at you, some you will be highly surprised you missed all these years.

Mine is affixed (and highly visible to all competitors), and not operated by cable or otherwise, but those type exist also.

Nitrous is not legal.

Oh, and my recent breakouts tell me maybe it is time to remove it as my lights against tough company are there on demand, and my tires are farther back. I stage with those 20" tall tires (that are a lot closer to my body than the bumper, not the beam breaker.

I am really surprised though that the biggest fear is a 17.75 index EF/S Stocker at Las Vegas with a beam breaker...I must be doing something right. (Even though I am lately looking for a Luke Bogacki class to show up entitled "How to race the stripe with a
very slow car against really fast company and win!")

Outside of I think 1 red (4 wides)...my last 8 losses were all .027 to .004 and all broke out. And absolutely everyone and everything is faster than I am...but with the new Holley Terminator X...I am going slowly quicker (baby steps, one step at a time), as it is learning, so am I.

At 75mph at the (1/4 mile), stripe, that beam breaker does not do much except make the track length consistently the same length (dead on the throttle, on the brakes, or out of the throttle).

Again I will say it...if you are paying attention to the slowest guy, you are missing the boat. I am however quite flattered. The lights are there now at the tree when I need em...and once I can trust the repeatability of running within a few thou, I will not be completely turned around in the seat (in my fishbowl of a car...that is mostly glass above the lower chest), staring into your eyes (to zero in on your very fast closing rates), and I will be able to use both pedals again and stripe leads a lot closer will result.

15" rims, new 23"-25" FWD slicks are coming soon enough once I reach Texas in May. Next vote...Do I have too many decals...lol. C'mon guys I am trying really hard to just fit in at age almost 68. Just riding next to you guys, watchin' you do wheelies in the rear view, and hopefully riding next to you at the stripe (and cutting a few up along the way at the tree sometimes), is the thrill of my life at this point in time (beam breaker or no beam breaker), please do not spoil my fun.

If you approach tech about me, please post the 700 bucks and protest....At this point I could surely use some pocket cash inflow. Only the nut behind the wheel needs adjusting...and only at the stripe lately. I do love Vegas after dark though a lot more than the break of day.

Signed a night owl (and born and bred night racer), stuck in a daytime racing
world!

Doesn?t make it right. And nhra certainly can check for stripe cheaters and blinders and people leaving off the line lock button the mystery dead zero stutter box cars etc

Who is the tech director that is blessing this?

[Cglrcng]

I just investigated many others (they were not that hard to find...just looked at lots of cars in the 2 classes as much as I could find, saw there was a very large contingent using them, looked at the rule book completely and lo and behold it was legal all along, tried it first in brackets to see if there was actually a competitive advantage (at my speed at the stripe and over the distance vs time there really wasn't...less than the math showed and a lot less than I originally calculated...in the thousandths, not hundredths, just a more consistent finish by turning off the clocks nearly at same place in each run was less dependent on attitude of the front end higher or lower at the stripe as I was an inch or 2 higher if in it, an inch or 2 lower if out of it or on the brakes and could actually run much faster if I dipped the nose hard without it).

I made mine very blatant and visible (which is what I see raising the ire here while many others out there are not so visible, but still there. Was not looking for a competitive advantage, just consistency with the body style I am using (transverse engine behind the spindle, and the 2 different lower hanging air dams that were triggering the finish line beam at different rates and times based on front end attitude), and availed myself of the existing ruleset allowance at the same time making my chosen legal solution quite evident to other competitors.

If it is new to you...then you are missing many others. It makes the track no shorter than I can make the track myself in 2 different ways and distances just by using my right and/or left foot in combination or separately (depending on when I time my last move to lift or brake at the line or stay dead in it).

It actually takes away those options. I may just want those other options back
now.

With it there, a competitor knows what part of my car will reach that beam at 1320'...without it there neither one of us knows...could be front air dam, could be the lower air dam under radiator or the front of the tire all depending on the attitude of the front of the car and the
last second stripe move decision I make. It is just 1 of those cars that sits 1" above that 6" high finish line beam at natural massive speed of a whole 75 mph at the finish line.

The recent string of quite good light
breakouts that I am recently experiencing has convinced me that it may be more of a competitive disadvantage than I calculated, so thanks for making me think about it as much as you have.

It was just safer for all concerned that I use the brake pedal less when the guy in the opposing lane is side-by-side in the lights at 137-147 mph...but it has cost me some good win lights I think after a deep dive on breakouts (some close some far).

[Cglrcng]

Personally I did not think it was blinders they were looking for at LODRS 7-4. Looked underhood and in car at my shifter. That Q1 there were more than 25 drivers during Q1 alone that had lights of -.025 - .025....buttons or the like was my guess. I did not ask.

The cream of the crop from across the country was there due to the 3 west coast Nats swing, from last year's world champ to many past world Champs and some of the best light cutters all the divisions have to offer. So, the lights being very close was not a surprise but a cursory glance was pretty much in order there. Ant look at the Q sheets, Elim. Sheets for that double said tight tree cutting take a gander and see what you just might see.

My foot braking light aids are my tire pressure guage and that wonderful Petro coffee first thing in the morning and Pepsi/Dr. Pepper in the afternoon, and nothing but me and that beautiful
bright tree in the darkness after sunset.

I just love the bright lights of Vegas after dark sets in. Nothing in the world like it, or as my wife says...."You are in your element!" Me, the bright tree, the lit track and zero distractions beyond. But, I wake up at sunset.

Catch me in the morning as at my age just waking up enough to race is a science experiment.

[1700camaro]

Originally Posted by MR DERBY CITY

HOPEFULLY, What happens in Vegas ??. STAYS in Vegas?..

I would venture to say, it's going to travel; not everything stays in Vegas.

1700/STY/781L

[MR DERBY CITY]

Originally Posted by Cglrcng

I




looked at the rule book completely and lo and behold it was legal all along, .

That may be your opinion, BUT Farmer, Red, and Marty Barret are all rolling over in their graves today …..

[Cglrcng]

You are a wise man 1700. I am travelling next to Div. 4, possibly 6 and beyond, it will be with me, maybe on at times, maybe off (as long as the published ruleset remains written the same), mine is easy to remove, and easy to test differences now. The car changed with
recent upgrades. And I have yet to test it
with it off.

Innovation within the published ruleset is always fun. And it is usually encouraged. Don't hate me because I experiment as I have a lot against me already making a slow car work in the category. I have fully embraced slow just to watch and compete against the really fast.

Nothing gets my blood running in these veins better and faster than a really fast car in the other lane (from the wheels up leave in the rear view), and at the stripe! I live for it today...Q passes are boring in comparison for this bracket racer at heart. I would dial in on Q passes if they would let us, just to have a lot more fun.

[btbelvedere]

Originally Posted by Bobby Fazio

Just make the finish line beam the same height as the starting line beam and problem solved.

I agree. You should take the stripe with whatever you staged with.

[Cglrcng]

Originally Posted by MR DERBY CITY

That may be your opinion, BUT Farmer, Red, and Marty Barret are all rolling over in their graves today ?..

Not an opinion...black writing on white pages...see 11A Ground Clearance, it says see General Regulations 4.5 see that and it is again black writing on white pages. (Currently legal), tomorrow who knows. It was once not legal to install a fuel cell in my car...it is these days, so I did. It does not take lawyering the rules...just reading them and keeping up with allowed changes. I was not pushing any boundaries just going with allowances published.

My head combustion chambers are avg. 50.5 cc's each instead of the 48.0 min cc's (first head milling), leaving legal room for future improvement. That is (2.5 cc x 4), total 10 cc's more room for
air, lower c.r....does that hurt or help me? All I know is when it comes off the test stand it will pass. (We cc'd that head twice back here after I paid add'l. for it to be cc'd. by the head work masters in Peachtree, GA that did the machine work),

Not pushing any envelopes intentionally, just so if ever torn down it will be found
nothing but legal.

All this controversy over nothing but a legal protrusion under the car (not attached in any way to the body, but the frame underhood). If I take the blade off, you will be studying the 3 other items between bumper tip and tire under there and really will not know which target to go for in the future.

The electronics is a definite (having just tested at the spring Fling I know it is is definitely not a footbraker's world by any stretch of the imagination these days), yes I won a round .002, lost a round that we both were .017, fired off a whole host of .030-.037's that were winners and losers...But the amount of perfect, .00x to teens fired off by most made it a test only of the new ecu system and a pure really expensive bucket list item for me. Those electronics allowed makes heroes out of usual zeroes and usual heroes even better. I went some rounds, and visited the buyback window too...I simply did not belong, but I also had a blast .002 and a winslip footbraking against that kind of company in a slowest than ever Stocker is flat out fun if you flat out love bracket racing!
Am I competitive over the 8 or more rounds it takes to win the yuuuuge bigly check?...hell no unless the drag racing angels are on your shoulder all day and all night long...and right as darkness set in the first night (just as it was getting to my personal best part if the day, they shut it all off as the track was too cold to run the fast cars), ruining my 3rd round best chance to move on, transferring it to an even earlier AM continuation and combining 2 30K races into a 60K giving me and all others 1 less though 1 twice as big chance to shine. (Paid in advance to race 3 x 30K, actually raced 1 30K, and a 60K due to weather). No crying there, we were having too much fun.

They guy that ended my very first Fling went trip zip and ⁸/thou total pkg on me. I was racing him to the last fraction o$ an inch, not knowing that the millisecond he left and as I was watching his green come on that my .032 was *unless he made a gigantic error or mistake in the next 660' I was pretty much mathematically already eliminated. I heard it on the radio just after his win light came on...deflation was instant, but cruised the pits and found him and helped him celebrate his first ever trip zip 8thou pkg in a 60K race. I then packed up and moved on the morning of the Million I was not wastsing another 2K or more on.

1 bucket list race checked off...at least until I build a purpose built electronics laden down bracket car with everything the modern world of technology has to offer in it at least. (And I mean everything Matt Biondo and others have to offer)...because while we class racers keep them dialing honest, they have all the power adders and electronic gizmos and gadgets you can imagine in those rocketships.

That playing field is so tilted it will stand you on your head. Is there some of that in our category? My money says there may be a little bit, but on the average, the lights say nowhere near it. And for those that do..it is only a matter of time before spot checks and a deeper look will catch it. It just won't be me, as I really enjoy doing things the harder more challenging way.

I am nowhere near as good as I once was, but I am as good once or twice as I ever was...now just to string a few more rounds together at one time...luck has to also come for a ride.

You may see me beam breaker on or off, we shall see...but it is a legal aid as long as 4.5 Gen. Regs and 11A points to 4.5.

I did not write the rules just abiding by the publication of them as they stand right now, to my benefit or not...thinking more not to my benefit lately...but, if you are looking at my front bumper in the lanes instead of the top end charge, you may just have missed that .00x to teens I just dropped on you 5-6 seconds ago.

Ahhh, it could have been a .030-.089, depends on who it is and how you look like you feel that day. (It could also have been red if I allow pure muscle memory to take over and just did not get my front tire pressure and coffee/soda combo just right). John Irving is right on correct, I will win more w/ .030's than reds by thousandths in a very slow car...must have a fighting chance leaving first. Just in my blood to attempt to steal the tree if I can. Pack it up in the hatchback if I could. Not afraid of a redeye though, the chances we take. You keep looking under my bumper.

[Mark Yacavone]

MJ, You asked for that one ... LOL