Stocker Tooled Steel Cam & Lifters

[Alan Roehrich]

Originally Posted by Glenn Briglio

Why not the dlc lifters?

WAY too many issues with various DLC coatings in the past. Compatibility issues with oils, other materials it interfaces with, etc. When it starts to come off, and it will, it's like a hand full of industrial diamonds circulating in your engine.

[65signet]

I use non coated tool steel lifters with a cast core cam for years.

[Alan Roehrich]

Originally Posted by 65signet

I use non coated tool steel lifters with a cast core cam for years.

Yep. Sold a few dozen sets. The trick for many engine builders was to break in the camshaft using Shubeck lifters, then put tool steel lifters in.There's another brief break in required there, but once the Shubeck lifters burnish the cast iron cam, the tool steel lifters will break in and run reliably, with good quality oil.


You cannot, under any circumstances, run DLC coated lifters on cast iron core camshafts. I know one lifter supplier told people you can, and it was disastrous. Cast iron is by nature abrasive, and DLC simply will not live on it.

[JCChildress]

I worked in an engine shop that did lots and lots of Late Model Stock engines ( all solid flat tappet ) . We used all cast iron cores and tooled steel lifters. We always broke in engines without the inner springs and used break in oil. I don't remember hardly ever seeing any issues.Our lifters were not coated at all.
I'm just wondering how the tooled steel cam would do with non coated tooled steel lifters. I won't likely own a set of Shubeck lifters. I had an engine builder put a set of Shubeck lifters in a 340 once and we never made a pass. The ceramic came off and it literally destroyed the cylinder walls and pistons. It was around 2000 I think....so 25 years ago.

[SS/AM]

Steel core cams and DLC lifters went over 1000 miles in NASCAR 20 years ago, all the while lofting the lifters/valves (added lift, big advantage in a stocker).
Lifter foot crown height, and who applies the DLC to them are key, as well as who you talk to at your cam company, in our case it was Steve Brown at Comp, if he's still there I'd call him.

[john ancona]

The question is at what lift ,spring rate along with what spring seat pressure

[Alan Roehrich]

To be abundantly clear, what NASCAR is using is so far removed from what is on an NHRA flat tappet Stock Eliminator engine as to complete preclude any direct comparison.


And I remember vividly more than one instance where entire teams had failures directly attributed to DLC, and even engine suppliers who supplied several top teams. JGR at one point pulled every engine in every single car they had, and every team they supplied. The DLC came off, and they were arguing with the DLC coater, the lifter supplier, and looking at their oil that they were having blended themselves.


It's not common now, but again, these are engines with larger diameter lifters, with shaft mounted high ratio rockers, closed cam tunnels, with 60MM and larger cam cores, trick oiling, dry sumps, and entirely different cam profiles and valve train systems.

[Terry Cain]

Originally Posted by john ancona

The question is at what lift ,spring rate along with what spring seat pressure

AND RPM and weight of valve.