if wally was'nt dead this woulda killed him

[Bill Grubbs]

Originally Posted by Jason Oldfield

Class eliminations are now pointless. I'd love to hear somebody make a logical argument as to the reasoning behind continuing to have class eliminations because I can't think of one. Class eliminations are now nothing more than side show, just like the extra races that many of us compete in at the division races (S/SS shootouts and the like)....

If you truly believe this...Then you must also ascribe to the supposition, since we are not pros (for national events) or TAD/AFC (for divisionals), our attendance at an event is nothing more than a side show.

Keep repeating something over and over, and you, as well as other people will begin to believe your mantra. While I believe we (class racers) do not carry the biggest stick, we never the less have a stick, and a stick of any size (large or small) is dangerous, you just need to know how to use it.

Winning Class will always be a Class Win, but winning the eliminator will always be worth more money. If you can win both with out a bump in (NHRA's words) then "Your the Man/Woman."

As far as the SAC, call them. They are not mind readers. Yes they were elected to represent their constituancy, but they cannot call every single racer and poll them, it is incumbant upon you to let your representative know your thoughts. If you do not feel they are representing your interest, then your wrong because they represent the interest of the Class as a whole. If you feel otherwise you should run for the position next time, but remember it is not about "You" it is about the Class. If the Class is not represented then that is a different story.

Bill

PS. Eventhough I agree with this change; STOP changing the rules!! unless safety is involved, or a better part is available, or a new letter from a dusty file cabinet appears at NHRA, or if someone whines.

[Jason Oldfield]

Originally Posted by Bill Grubbs

If you truly believe this...Then you must also ascribe to the supposition, since we are not pros (for national events) or TAD/AFC (for divisionals), our attendance at an event is nothing more than a side show.

I absolutely, positively do not feel this way, nor did I state anything close to this. But, nobody is making the trek to a national event to win class only for the $500 and the mini-Wally. Sure, it's a nice little way to subsidize your trip to the track, but who in their right mind is going to pay $250 to enter to win $500 (before all other expenses are considered) with NO chance of being in final eliminations?

I'll tell you who, nobody, which is why I stated that class eliminations are now nothing better than a little side race to fill in some time.

There are a lot of good race cars that go to Indy that go home, some of which would have been able to get their way in because they could win class, maybe even using this thing called DRIVER SKILL. Now, it's the ones with the most money / most favorable combo at that time that get to race in final eliminations. Jr. Comp should be the new name of this category.

Originally Posted by Bill Grubbs

PS. Eventhough I agree with this change; STOP changing the rules!! unless safety is involved, or a better part is available, or a new letter from a dusty file cabinet appears at NHRA, or if someone whines.

I'm going to assume you're kidding about the last two, as that's what appears to happen more times than not to get these changes to take place.

As I said before, this rule change doesn't affect me in the least other than from a sportsman racing standpoint. I think it was the wrong decision to make, and just made these classes more elitist than they already are. Plus, from a fan standpoint watching class eliminations used to be fun watching the drivers try to secure themselves a spot in final eliminations. Now, they're running for $500 and a mini-Wally. Yawn.

[Bill Grubbs]

Jason,
I actually know a lot of people who go to National Events because they have (run) class, and most of those racers also have class.

Bill

[Jeff Lee]

I beg to differ but there are many Class racers that attend a National event and are there with the intent of winning class. For some, winning the eliminator is secondary. I once knew a guy that one class @ Indy back in the early '70's with a '68 Barracuda 340. He won class at Indy. He had a lleather jacket that was custom stitched with this victory "I won Class at Indy" and something about the car. I met him at Neil Smedly's home in the mid '80's and it appeared this may have been the greatest automotive event of his life. The old guy still probably goes to car shows with that jacket. Corny? You bet! But I completely understand.
The same logic finds there are some racers that only race Divisional events so they can set national records. After tear down, they go home.
Myself, I was #1 qualifier, won class and made it to the finals and lost. I'm very proud even with the loss because of the difficulty in achieving a triple like that. My friend Neil Smedly did that on his one national event win and I'll forever look up to him for doing so.
No, this whole Indy deal is a farce and as Bill Grubbs suggested, I will be in contact with our D7 rep over this. There are a lot of things in life which can be viewed as a waste of time but we do it as it is tradition and does serve a purpose. Should we save a few bullets and not have a 21 gun salute to those that have served our country when they are burried? No, we do it out of respect and honor.
Some race in S/SS and could care less about the tradition and honor in having the fastest in their class on that particular day. Fine, nobody is making you put more time or money in your vehicle. But without class run-offs, or heads-up runs, this is nothing more than a bracket race. Nothing personal to Jason or anybody else but maybe a S/ST or S/G racer using a throttle stop, delay box and whatever else may not ever fully understand the pride, devotion and sense of accomplishment that comes from showing you were the top dog that day. And just to make it clear this is not motivated by an angle, I have the slowest car in my respective class. I enjoy the challenge and fully intend to ellevate that level. But right now I'm no shoe-in for a class win.
And somehow I can't help but feel this new policy was lead by the bracket racer contingent whom would like to compete in a national event forum but lack the dedication or resources to lead the performance arena.

[Rich Biebel]

I began racing seriously in 1966 with a partner and we had a '57 Chevy sedan delivery Jr Stocker. Going to Indy and winning class was like Nirvana to most people that raced back then. Winning the eliminator was not really even what we thought about much. Winning class was huge. That and being a national record holder were the 2 biggest goals for many. Winning an eliminator would also have been big but seemed like a more remote thing to accomplish at a place like Indy. We managed to get to the H/SA ? class final at Indy in 1966 and got a big paper "T" decal on our windshield.....I never removed that "T". Some racers got to go many times and won class many times. In the modern era with so many classes it doesn't mean much. Making a bye run for a class win is pretty meaningless....back in 1966 every class had a lot of cars but there were a lot less classes. Every class winner got torn down and if he was illegal the R/Up got torn down and was given the win if he was found to be legal.....I think there are to many classes and there are a ton of them that should be dropped........Indy should still be class winners and then low qualifiers but cut the number of classes and there are many I personally would drop completely. Nobody wants to watch a pile of slow cars make singles and that is not the way it used to be at Indy......

[Jeff Lee]

Rich,
My sentiments exactly.

[Alan Roehrich]

Originally Posted by Rich Biebel

I began racing seriously in 1966 with a partner and we had a '57 Chevy sedan delivery Jr Stocker. Going to Indy and winning class was like Nirvana to most people that raced back then. Winning the eliminator was not really even what we thought about much. Winning class was huge. That and being a national record holder were the 2 biggest goals for many. Winning an eliminator would also have been big but seemed like a more remote thing to accomplish at a place like Indy. We managed to get to the H/SA ? class final at Indy in 1966 and got a big paper "T" decal on our windshield.....I never removed that "T". Some racers got to go many times and won class many times. In the modern era with so many classes it doesn't mean much. Making a bye run for a class win is pretty meaningless....back in 1966 every class had a lot of cars but there were a lot less classes. Every class winner got torn down and if he was illegal the R/Up got torn down and was given the win if he was found to be legal.....I think there are to many classes and there are a ton of them that should be dropped........Indy should still be class winners and then low qualifiers but cut the number of classes and there are many I personally would drop completely. Nobody wants to watch a pile of slow cars make singles and that is not the way it used to be at Indy......

A LOT of what Rich says has great merit. Great post.

[Jim Wahl]

Rich said: .I think there are to many classes and there are a ton of them that should be dropped........Indy should still be class winners and then low qualifiers but cut the number of classes and there are many I personally would drop completely. Nobody wants to watch a pile of slow cars make singles and that is not the way it used to be at Indy......

Let me guess which classes you would "drop completely". The "slow cars" right? So what exactly IS a "slow car"? Anything slower than what YOU run no doubt. What you say makes as much sense as me saying I don't think there should be any fast cars because they take up too much time and nobody wants to watch a pile of Camaro's run each other. Why don't you just say " If your car isn't just like mine you shouldn't be allowed to race." Jim

[Alan Roehrich]

Originally Posted by Bill Grubbs

Jason,
I actually know a lot of people who go to National Events because they have (run) class, and most of those racers also have class.

Bill

Bill is correct. I personally know more than a couple of racers who will ONLY go to a National Event if class is contested. They'll go so far as to skip a race that is within 200-300 miles and instead go to a race 900 miles away, JUST because class is contested. And they don't go to single for class, either. Nice guys, always willing to help you, and mostly old time die hard racers, and none of them are strokes either.

[Jason Oldfield]

Originally Posted by Alan Roehrich

Bill is correct. I personally know more than a couple of racers who will ONLY go to a National Event if class is contested. They'll go so far as to skip a race that is within 200-300 miles and instead go to a race 900 miles away, JUST because class is contested. And they don't go to single for class, either. Nice guys, always willing to help you, and mostly old time die hard racers, and none of them are strokes either.

I don't doubt that Stock and Super Stock racers pick which races they are going to attend based upon whether class is contested there or not. I know if I raced in these categories, those would be the races at the top of my list.

What I have a hard time believing is that people would choose to go to a race SPECIFICALLY because class is contested there, with no regard to final eliminations whatsoever.

If that's the case, then I stand corrected, and shows one more reason why this .90 racer is ignorant when it comes to racing in these classes.

I personally like the class elimination setup, and don't think it should have been changed for reasons I mentioned earlier. And I could be wrong, but with the advent of the top 128 car qualifying format, I'm sure you'll lose out on more entries, as I still can't believe that in today's economy that anybody would travel to Indy ONLY to compete in class, knowing full well they have NO shot at competing in final eliminations (i.e. they know they might be able to win class, but also know they can't run quick enough under the index to be a top 128 qualifier).

For those of you that compete in these classes and support the class system, I hope you can get it changed back to the way it was.

Signed,

A .90 Racer & Stock & Super Stock Fan