S/SS - Lower the index -0.50 & run Pro ladder

[Don Turk]

Reading all of this is interesting. To me Stock is a mix of running Brackets and Performance racing. My car runs G/SA and that is a class with a lot of race cars. I did not pick my car a 1968 GTO because it would have a advantage in G/SA. I picked it because I like Pontiacs and GTOs. We all have our handicaps Because of funding, time, and focus my old goat is slow on a good day its been 3 tenths under. I build my own engines and work in the budget I am given to work with. I am also stubborn but enjoy the science of building a car .
I love racing class cars and enjoy brackets. Class racing is more challenging due to rules and frankly the level of competition even with shoe polish on the window. I looked at investing more to run faster but realized at 3 under or 7 under there is a faster car out there and in the end short of making a limited field could not see the sense in it for that reason which is just a personal choice. If I pursue more performance it will be cause my ego says it is time not sure if my brain can keep up but hey it is all about the journey right.

Pure heads up racing is great. My experience is that is it always pre ordained to fail at the grass roots level. Because some one will always be faster and have more money more time or more brains. I always wondered what would happen if we changed the landscape in sportsman racing. Much like bracket racing did years back.
Imagine a Stock or Super Stock rules as they are today...

Qualifying off the indexes as we do today with one change and that would be handicapping the tree using our indexes.

Next take all the contigency money and apply it to the top 10 qualifiers. Number one qualifier recieves a Trophy or wally as well.

Then take 50% or better of the purse and spread this across the top 32 qualifiers in a stepped fashion.
In essence put the big bucks and reconigtion into making the the top 32 in the field.

ELIMINATIONS
#128 runs #127
126 runs 125
124 runs 123 and so on
Heads up off the index with no breakout

Pay Round Money in a stair stepped fashion Rd1 Winners 20 bucks 40 60 etc....

The winner gets a wally and obviously the most round money.

Any one in the Top 32 left with the biggest money of the weekend.
How does it effect the fans.......Head Starts but the car that gets there first wins Period..Most understand why the 4 cylinder Pinto gets a head start over the Big Block camaro the disconnect comes from the breakouts.

For the racer and myself all of the sudden there is a new found motivation to get the tools out because maybe if I am 128 and 127 is .05 faster I can out drive him but what about second round when my opponent is .15 faster on their index.

Hey I went home with 20 bucks and because I gunned the guy or gal down at the tree I got by round one but man a .000 rt would not have won me round two. I have got to get faster to go another round. I am engaged because 20 bucks is better than nothing and early rounds very well may be a drivers game

Close racing, no breakouts, still better be able to drive, and short of round one losers some reward for a minor accomplishment. In the end you have to be able to build a fast car to get to the gold ring. Hell some of ya all would probably win two Wallys LOL
Keep talking because change is critical to the future of our sport we all love so much.
Besides everyone outside of Drag Racing thinks were all nuts anyway
Thanks
Don

[SS Engine Guy]

Originally Posted by bsa633

I just think it looks stupid to run 1.3 sec or more under the index..but thats just me.

I agree, factor the motors somewhere close to correct and that will take care of the "enhancements" of recent years. It dosen't really matter where the index is. If the baddest hotrod there goes 6 under then it is in the #1 spot. Same difference. You aren't curing any problem, you are just shuffling numbers around.

NEVER take hard work and testing out of the game. That is what makes this fun. But don't screw with the #1 spot on the sheet when you are 30-50 hp soft based on previous performance and think that is an indicator of what an index should be. Its not hard to see what is wrong when the et vs. mph dosen't add up.

Indexes are definitely softer but in my case the same combo I was running then has been factored until it is running 3 classes faster (lower) by todays index numbers.

[Ron Ortiz]

Eliminating the trigger is a solution to alot of problems facing the racers and would be an encouragment to a performance based category.

There are many cars out there capable of running more than a second under. Every one of them fear of going 1.4 under by accident or not, because of the penalties that will follow. In all honesty, if the car is legal and capable of going that far under, it is probably factored incorrectly according to NHRA's standards. So, whether the car is legal or not, to maintain this advantage one must "protect" their combo by sand bagging or nose dipping at a 1,000. I'm sorry, but thats not entertainment to anyone, spectators, racers, pets, you name it, it does not represent drag racing or a performance based category. I understand about holding back a little (wise strategy) to set up an opponent for an upcoming race, but not doing it an entire season.

I hear all the time about racers wanting to run their car all the way out, but can't due to the trigger. If everyone was allowed to run fast as they wnat, it would be so much fun. Bragging rights would be more credible, competition would be more finely tuned, and drag racing would be like it is stated, drag racing.

As someone said on here, lowering the index or changing the trigger level, is only shuffling numbers. And as I stated before, lowering the indexes is is only beneficial to those who are within range of the horsepower fairy.

Most racers started out above the index and worked their way to where they are now. Leaving the indexes alone would still serve the same purpose. The problem now exists when you start going too far under the index. Don't lower the index to prevent from going under too far, raise the other end of the equation. Raising the trigger is a temporary band aid. Eliminating the trigger allows for all out performance.

It will benefit the evaluation process in the long run. After about a year or so, it will be evident who needs HP and who does not. There are too many people pointing fingers at who should be getting a HP hit. Well, with all the sand bagging currently going on, what does it matter. If they are legal, it is going to be the same story without a trigger

This trigger elimination is just my opinion to benefit Stock, for the racers, the spectators, the sport, and yes, even the pets. They do not it like when their owners come back from a run that went too far under.

Ron Ortiz
U/SA Did I mention T/S & T/D

[OLD INJUN]

Why don't we see any a through e stock guys complaining? This looks like to me that the only people complaining are the ones that bought there car off joe's used car lot for $1,500.00 and put a (header) and slicks on it and went racing. N.h.r.a. Should just start factoring the sh_ _ out of every car till they all run the same flat out like pro stock. Then you would have some good racing !

[SSDiv6]

Originally Posted by Ron Ortiz

Eliminating the trigger is a solution to alot of problems facing the racers and would be an encouragment to a performance based category.

There are many cars out there capable of running more than a second under. Every one of them fear of going 1.4 under by accident or not, because of the penalties that will follow. In all honesty, if the car is legal and capable of going that far under, it is probably factored incorrectly according to NHRA's standards. So, whether the car is legal or not, to maintain this advantage one must "protect" their combo by sand bagging or nose dipping at a 1,000. I'm sorry, but thats not entertainment to anyone, spectators, racers, pets, you name it, it does not represent drag racing or a performance based category. I understand about holding back a little (wise strategy) to set up an opponent for an upcoming race, but not doing it an entire season.

I hear all the time about racers wanting to run their car all the way out, but can't due to the trigger. If everyone was allowed to run fast as they wnat, it would be so much fun. Bragging rights would be more credible, competition would be more finely tuned, and drag racing would be like it is stated, drag racing.

As someone said on here, lowering the index or changing the trigger level, is only shuffling numbers. And as I stated before, lowering the indexes is is only beneficial to those who are within range of the horsepower fairy.

Most racers started out above the index and worked their way to where they are now. Leaving the indexes alone would still serve the same purpose. The problem now exists when you start going too far under the index. Don't lower the index to prevent from going under too far, raise the other end of the equation. Raising the trigger is a temporary band aid. Eliminating the trigger allows for all out performance.

It will benefit the evaluation process in the long run. After about a year or so, it will be evident who needs HP and who does not. There are too many people pointing fingers at who should be getting a HP hit. Well, with all the sand bagging currently going on, what does it matter. If they are legal, it is going to be the same story without a trigger

This trigger elimination is just my opinion to benefit Stock, for the racers, the spectators, the sport, and yes, even the pets. They do not it like when their owners come back from a run that went too far under.

Ron Ortiz
U/SA Did I mention T/S & T/D

Good post...Ron hits a lot of good points such as the trigger. I agree with Ron that the trigger holds back many combinations of showing how fast they can go. If the trigger was lifted, then the combinations could be factored better.

[Alan Roehrich]

Once again, for those who propose eliminating the "trigger", I ask this:

If there is no "trigger", when, and by what means, will HP be adjusted?

[Dick Butler]

Trigger should be close enough to DO something for HP system. If it is true the Index drops .2 next year the index should move MORE so it would be more sensitive and not less. Without this there is NO correction.

[Ron Ortiz]

Alan, Dick, the correction will be the same as it is now. Only instead of getting immediate HP adjustments, it will be done at a later point in time, maybe a year from now. By that time it should be obvious what combos need an adjustment. Eliminating the trigger allows for people to run it out now and quit playing this stupid sand bagging, nose dipping actions. Adjustments will come later so now you have the opportunity to flex your muscle.

Lowering the indexes is just moving numbers around to satisfy the ones who are close to the majic 1.4 under rule.

Ron Ortiz
U/SA

[art leong]

With no trigger. They could go back to the old methods.
Ouija boards, dart boards, personal vendetas, and last but far from least WHINERS, CRYBABIES and the like.
For me I'll take my chances with a number.

[Alan Roehrich]

Originally Posted by Ron Ortiz

Alan, Dick, the correction will be the same as it is now. Only instead of getting immediate HP adjustments, it will be done at a later point in time, maybe a year from now. By that time it should be obvious what combos need an adjustment. Eliminating the trigger allows for people to run it out now and quit playing this stupid sand bagging, nose dipping actions. Adjustments will come later so now you have the opportunity to flex your muscle.

Lowering the indexes is just moving numbers around to satisfy the ones who are close to the majic 1.4 under rule.

Ron Ortiz
U/SA

Ron,
I have to say that makes no sense at all. It isn't the "trigger" they're afraid of, it's the HP adjustment. So it does not matter that there is no "trigger", you still get HP. What you propose is removal of the 1.4 under instant HP Monday morning, correct? And the 1.14 under trigger for "evaluation" remains in effect? Hell, people work just as hard now not to hit 1.14 under as they do 1.4 under. HP is HP, it does not matter if you get it tomorrow, or 6 months later, it's still HP. And you'll still get as much, too. Hell, just for fun look into it and find out if, over all, more HP isn't given by evaluation than by the instant Monday HP after a 1.4 under shot. A smart guy with a fast car will work to avoid a 1.14 under pass if at all possible, and by doing so will also avoid a 1.4 under pass. Taking away the 1.4 under instant HP won't change that for damned sure. And there's a LOT more "bracket mode", "sandbagging", and "dumping" to avoid 1.14 under than there is to avoid 1.4 under. I just don't see what your suggestion will accomplish at all, at least with regards to your stated goal.