HOME FORUM RULES CONTACT
     
   
   

Go Back   CLASS RACER FORUM > Class Racer Forums > Stock and Super Stock
Register Photo Gallery FAQ Community Calendar

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 10-08-2008, 08:39 PM   #1
LB Racing 3179
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 48
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
Default Re: Stick vs. Auto index

How about in Super Stock Modified where the automatic cars get up to a 250lbs. weight break and run on the same index as the stick cars. Every record in Super Stock Modified is held by automatic cars.
LB Racing 3179 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-08-2008, 09:01 PM   #2
Jared Jordan
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Modesto, CA
Posts: 613
Likes: 199
Liked 536 Times in 119 Posts
Send a message via AIM to Jared Jordan
Default Re: Stick vs. Auto index

Quote:
Originally Posted by LB Racing 3179 View Post
How about in Super Stock Modified where the automatic cars get up to a 250lbs. weight break and run on the same index as the stick cars. Every record in Super Stock Modified is held by automatic cars.
The quickest SS/AM car in the country (Scott Gove) runs a stick.

A good comparison is the SS/AH cars of the Westcotts. At a recent test session Jr. went 8.50 @ 155 with the auto and Sr. went 8.51 @ 158 with the stick. Same track, same day, same air. I know that the 4-speed is 40 lbs lighter but it also doesn't use the radial.
__________________
Jared Jordan
9 B/SA
2024 Jeg's D7 All Star - Stock
Jared Jordan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-09-2008, 09:56 AM   #3
Superfan1
VIP Member
 
Superfan1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Bridgeport,CT.
Posts: 1,993
Likes: 1,665
Liked 2,637 Times in 440 Posts
Smile Re: Stick vs. Auto index

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jared Jordan View Post
The quickest SS/AM car in the country (Scott Gove) runs a stick.

A good comparison is the SS/AH cars of the Westcotts. At a recent test session Jr. went 8.50 @ 155 with the auto and Sr. went 8.51 @ 158 with the stick. Same track, same day, same air. I know that the 4-speed is 40 lbs lighter but it also doesn't use the radial.
Scott Gove is the quickest SS/AM on the planet, but Paul Ricci is the record holder at 8.19@164.55 with an automatic. He set it at the D-1 race at Atco this past weekend. Scott Gove has the potential to be the second SSer to run in the 7s but he was at Atco and didn't set the record. I don't know if he had problems but he didn't get the record. If he is at the Dutch Classic and the air is good; watch out!
Bill Seabrooks - superfan1
Superfan1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-09-2008, 10:28 AM   #4
bsa633
Banned
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Posts: 310
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Default Re: Stick vs. Auto index

Quote:
Originally Posted by Superfan1 View Post
Scott Gove is the quickest SS/AM on the planet, but Paul Ricci is the record holder at 8.19@164.55 with an automatic. He set it at the D-1 race at Atco this past weekend. Scott Gove has the potential to be the second SSer to run in the 7s but he was at Atco and didn't set the record. I don't know if he had problems but he didn't get the record. If he is at the Dutch Classic and the air is good; watch out!
Bill Seabrooks - superfan1
I always thougnt that automatics had an weightbreak in modified classes,are they gone nowdays?
bsa633 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-09-2008, 10:35 AM   #5
Superfan1
VIP Member
 
Superfan1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Bridgeport,CT.
Posts: 1,993
Likes: 1,665
Liked 2,637 Times in 440 Posts
Smile Re: Stick vs. Auto index

Quote:
Originally Posted by bsa633 View Post
I always thougnt that automatics had an weightbreak in modified classes,are they gone nowdays?
Automatics still have a weight break in the modified classes; cars with a fully automatic trans can remove up to 5% or 250 lbs., whichever is less, from regular class weight. This is what makes Scott Gove's stick car so impressive. If I remember correctly, at the Dutch Classic last year in air that was not good; he ran 8.02 in SS/AM. If he is at the Classic this year and the air is as good as it usually is at the end of October; a 7 second run is very possible.
Bill Seabrooks - superfan1
Superfan1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-09-2008, 12:05 PM   #6
Evan Smith
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Tampa
Posts: 400
Likes: 7
Liked 115 Times in 5 Posts
Default Re: Stick vs. Auto index

Bruce,

I am not championing this cause, I just chimed in after the point was made that sticks are simply better because of direct drive and better mph. That is simply not true. Nor can you say just because one car is fast that sticks are quicker than autos, as some would suggest.

I just don't like it when people don't tell the whole story. We all know stick cars mph better, but all the facts were not talked about. I really don't care if the indexes are changed for the stick cars, because I don't run heads-up in eliminatons against autos. I just wanted to make a point that all the facts should be considered if you are going to compare which cars are faster.

Evan
__________________
Evan Smith 1798 STK
Evan Smith is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-09-2008, 05:54 PM   #7
Jeff Lee
VIP Member
 
Jeff Lee's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Anthem, Arizona
Posts: 2,766
Likes: 0
Liked 3 Times in 3 Posts
Default Re: Stick vs. Auto index

Really after thinking about it some more, the stick guys should be happy and I should shut up. Presently I'm .10 further away from a HP increase than my SS/HA competitors and Rob youngblood is .200 further away than his SS/JA competitors (I'm referring of course to the weight break each designation falls into). I'm getting some things tweaked on my car and suspect it could put me dangerously close to AHFS re-factoring territory.
I had the same thing happen when the east coast racers complained about the factored tracks out west a few years ago. That move lifted about .15 off my runs and made it easier to stay off the AHFS hit.
By the way, I started to post the spread on the SS indexes but don't see much sense in it. But it sure is ugly!
__________________
Jeff Lee 7494 D/S '70 AMX
Jeff Lee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-09-2008, 10:25 AM   #8
Superfan1
VIP Member
 
Superfan1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Bridgeport,CT.
Posts: 1,993
Likes: 1,665
Liked 2,637 Times in 440 Posts
Smile Re: Stick vs. Auto index

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jared Jordan View Post
The quickest SS/AM car in the country (Scott Gove) runs a stick.

A good comparison is the SS/AH cars of the Westcotts. At a recent test session Jr. went 8.50 @ 155 with the auto and Sr. went 8.51 @ 158 with the stick. Same track, same day, same air. I know that the 4-speed is 40 lbs lighter but it also doesn't use the radial.
Interesting comparison; for the last 2 years the Westcotts have been trying to get Sr's stick car to 60' and 330' as well as Jr's automatic. It has always been obvious that Sr's car ran great mph, but Jr's car ran quicker ET. Now Jr's car is up for sale. and he is building a stick car. It took 2 years to get the stick car to ET well enough to convince the Westcotts to build a second stick car. I would think that this supports the premise that, with all other things being equal, the automatic is quicker and the stick is faster.
Bill Seabrooks - superfan1
Superfan1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-10-2008, 10:28 PM   #9
Z28-69
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Grand Rapids MI
Posts: 66
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Default Re: Stick vs. Auto index

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jared Jordan View Post
The quickest SS/AM car in the country (Scott Gove) runs a stick.

A good comparison is the SS/AH cars of the Westcotts. At a recent test session Jr. went 8.50 @ 155 with the auto and Sr. went 8.51 @ 158 with the stick. Same track, same day, same air. I know that the 4-speed is 40 lbs lighter but it also doesn't use the radial.
I was at that race.....he had a broken valve spring when he ran the .50. The next run he expected to run in the .40's
Z28-69 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-08-2008, 09:19 PM   #10
JRyan
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Aberdeen SD
Posts: 645
Likes: 30
Liked 112 Times in 31 Posts
Default Re: Stick vs. Auto index

Jeff,
The records are not the standard in all cases. Look at Nitro Joes stats over the last year. There are a few runs that are faster then current records. The SS/K record is a pefect example. The record is about .40 slower then it could be. Records mean nothing to NHRA so most don't worry about setting them. In several classes the fastest run of the year is within a .10 but what do you do about the classes that are .2-.4 faster.
Nobody has answered the question what do you do with the couple classes where the stick is at an incredible advantage. I run both stick and automatics so I don't think I have an agenda one way or the other. Our stick car doesn't have really any of the newest tricks yet it's capable of running with the majority of the automatic cars in the same class.
Last year there were more SS/JA cars then there were stick cars in all of the traditional SS classes. Yet between SS and GT classes nine times the stick car had a faster best actual ET. Now these were all done in different weather conditions and altitudes but that gives you a more broad persceptive then looking at the record page. It is feasable currently in several classes but you can't make the assumption that sticks and autos run the same in A/S so let's combine all of them.
Plus tell me this if they were to combine classes what do you do with cars that either didn't come as a stick or those that didn't come as an auto? Personally I'd love to make my Olds a stick car.

Rick Ryan
JRyan is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 11:49 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2025, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Copyright Class Racer.com. All Rights Reserved. Designated trademarks and brands are the property of their respective owners.