Older Superstock GT cars with scoops - Page 5

John Lang · 12-27-2008, 11:54 AM

Dill Dedman! Check the NHRA guide for 67 Ply or Dodge B Bodies which are Belvedere's or Coronet's W/HEMI's Wfa they are rated at 430HP , vs 425 for Non fa HEMI cars, i' m pretty sure. John Lang

bill dedman · 12-27-2008, 02:28 PM

Okay, John... I'll check that out. Thanks for the tip. I figured I'd miss some... NHRA is nothing if not inconsistent.

Bill

bill dedman · 12-27-2008, 02:34 PM

Adger,

That's a very sharp observation on your part, about the shipping weights. I guess I just figured that since you can add or subtract weight to move up or down a class (from the "natural" class,) that it wouldn't matter. My bad...

Thanks for pointing that out; it is certainly a valid consideration! I should have looked before I leapt... LOL!

Bill

X-TECH MAN · 12-27-2008, 03:19 PM

Now all of you guys that have been keeping those classic AMC "Pacers" stored away can install a street Hemi and go racing.....lol.

Ed Wright · 12-27-2008, 05:30 PM

It makes a difference in some factors, if ram air or not.
These are for the 1999 Firebird with the GM LS1 engine in GT:

Flat Hood: Ram Air:
Factory: 305hp 320hp

GT Stick: 305 320

GT/Auto 305 324

This past summer they gave the GT/Auto LS1 ram air cars 4 hp, not to the others.
The rest are the factory ratings.

Stewart Way · 12-27-2008, 07:32 PM

Adger
Don't understand your statement about being in the botton or top of a class with the original car. Just like with the original car the GT car can go to the top of the existing class, one class up or one class down. I'm building a 68 Hemi car and will likely run the 70 300hp 383. That puts me in GT/E. But I can go up to D or down to F Just like the normal SS cars can and I can hit the min weight for all three classes. Can you give me an example of a car that the original shipping weight would make it a disadvantage to put in GT. A made up example is fine, I'm just not following your train of thought, but I've been off track before.

Jeff
I've thought about the 383 2X4 but was told by NHRA no go because it was not an air car. Smaller exhaust valve but the tall intake might be interesting. The Hemi intake is 9-10 inches tall so the 383 could be a little taller. Not quite to tunnelram height but close.

Jeff Teuton · 12-27-2008, 08:16 PM

And then there were three, Stewart with me & Hale. Gonna be a popular class.

Adger Smith · 12-27-2008, 11:47 PM

It's not like picking a Modified class and running @ 9. lbs per cu in. where you adjust weight to the top.You are using both the factord Hp on car & the engine combination.
Even if the car fits in a class you can't adjust the weight more than 250 lbs from the original shipping weight of the original car with the heaviest V-8 power & it's factored HP. What is generally forgotten is the original weight for a GT car is figured from the heaviest V-8 combo in the class guide, not the combo you start with. Even though a car/ combo fits in a class the weight you have to run it at is not always at the top of the class. Say a car tops out at 9.33 with the 250 weight out of the original heaviest V-8 shipping weight. Then you are going to have to run it at 9.33 not the top 9.00 when you figure the weight of the combo. I know it was very confusing to me until I studied it.Almost as confusing as the AHFS... :~)

Stewart Way · 12-28-2008, 01:42 AM

Adger
In my situation with a 300 hp engine if the car was at 9.33 with 250 lbs out I couldn't legally get there. At 9.33 and 300 hp that would be 2800 lbs. Adding the 250 lbs back would bring you back to the original shipping weight of 3050. So with 300 hp the car would be 2850 at 9.5, 3000 at 10 and 3150 at 10.5. If you lower the HP you fit the classes easier because you have to remove less lbs to change class. Even if you raise the hp to 400 you can still fit 3 classes. Shipping weight in that case would be 3982 ((400 X 9.33) + 250). D would be 3800, E at 4000 and F at 4200. But now you are starting with a shipping weight of 3982 and I doubt anyone would do that in GT. I don't think there is a combo where there is a problem getting to the min weight in 3 classes that has a realistic shipping weight.

Jeff T.
When I told Warren Barnett I was going to do my AH type car and put it in GT with a 383 he said something like " who would ruin a good Hemi car by doing that". Imagine my smile when I was able to tell him Hale had done it and then this week being able to tell him you are doing it. I'll be watching because mine is still a ways away. Unless you use the 440 and send the 383 to Atlanta.

Jason · 12-28-2008, 12:14 PM

Lets title this thread...."How To Dishonor The Hemi Legend."

The Hemi Shootout was a great game while it lasted. Lots of money spent by people who wanted fame. What a shame to see traditional hemi cars downgraded. Maybe SS/GT should be allowed Pro Stock hood scoops so we can move on to the next class destroying rule change.

12-27-2008, 11:54 AM	#41
John Lang Member Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Sheboygan Wi Posts: 391 Likes: 0 Liked 6 Times in 2 Posts	Re: Older Superstock GT cars with scoops Dill Dedman! Check the NHRA guide for 67 Ply or Dodge B Bodies which are Belvedere's or Coronet's W/HEMI's Wfa they are rated at 430HP , vs 425 for Non fa HEMI cars, i' m pretty sure. John Lang __________________ John Lang 365 STK, SS

12-27-2008, 02:28 PM	#42
bill dedman VIP Member Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Conway, AR Posts: 1,739 Likes: 0 Liked 6 Times in 4 Posts	Re: Older Superstock GT cars with scoops Okay, John... I'll check that out. Thanks for the tip. I figured I'd miss some... NHRA is nothing if not inconsistent. Bill __________________ Bill

12-27-2008, 02:34 PM	#43
bill dedman VIP Member Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Conway, AR Posts: 1,739 Likes: 0 Liked 6 Times in 4 Posts	Re: Older Superstock GT cars with scoops Adger, That's a very sharp observation on your part, about the shipping weights. I guess I just figured that since you can add or subtract weight to move up or down a class (from the "natural" class,) that it wouldn't matter. My bad... Thanks for pointing that out; it is certainly a valid consideration! I should have looked before I leapt... LOL! Bill __________________ Bill

12-27-2008, 03:19 PM	#44
X-TECH MAN Banned Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Lake Placid, Florida Posts: 3,203 Likes: 1,047 Liked 235 Times in 110 Posts	Re: Older Superstock GT cars with scoops Now all of you guys that have been keeping those classic AMC "Pacers" stored away can install a street Hemi and go racing.....lol.

12-27-2008, 05:30 PM	#45
Ed Wright Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Sand Springs, OK Posts: 8,132 Likes: 896 Liked 390 Times in 170 Posts	Re: Older Superstock GT cars with scoops It makes a difference in some factors, if ram air or not. These are for the 1999 Firebird with the GM LS1 engine in GT: Flat Hood: Ram Air: Factory: 305hp 320hp GT Stick: 305 320 GT/Auto 305 324 This past summer they gave the GT/Auto LS1 ram air cars 4 hp, not to the others. The rest are the factory ratings. __________________ Ed Wright 4156 SS/JA Last edited by Ed Wright; 12-27-2008 at 05:32 PM. Reason: I'm not smart enough to make the collumns come out right.

12-27-2008, 07:32 PM	#46
Stewart Way Member Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Atlanta Posts: 476 Likes: 20 Liked 70 Times in 22 Posts	Re: Older Superstock GT cars with scoops Adger Don't understand your statement about being in the botton or top of a class with the original car. Just like with the original car the GT car can go to the top of the existing class, one class up or one class down. I'm building a 68 Hemi car and will likely run the 70 300hp 383. That puts me in GT/E. But I can go up to D or down to F Just like the normal SS cars can and I can hit the min weight for all three classes. Can you give me an example of a car that the original shipping weight would make it a disadvantage to put in GT. A made up example is fine, I'm just not following your train of thought, but I've been off track before. Jeff I've thought about the 383 2X4 but was told by NHRA no go because it was not an air car. Smaller exhaust valve but the tall intake might be interesting. The Hemi intake is 9-10 inches tall so the 383 could be a little taller. Not quite to tunnelram height but close.

12-27-2008, 08:16 PM	#47
Jeff Teuton VIP Member Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Houma, LA Posts: 2,717 Likes: 2 Liked 325 Times in 50 Posts	Re: Older Superstock GT cars with scoops And then there were three, Stewart with me & Hale. Gonna be a popular class. __________________ Jeff Teuton 4022 STK

12-27-2008, 11:47 PM	#48
Adger Smith VIP Member Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Texarkana Ark/TX Posts: 2,446 Likes: 575 Liked 880 Times in 311 Posts	Re: Older Superstock GT cars with scoops It's not like picking a Modified class and running @ 9. lbs per cu in. where you adjust weight to the top.You are using both the factord Hp on car & the engine combination. Even if the car fits in a class you can't adjust the weight more than 250 lbs from the original shipping weight of the original car with the heaviest V-8 power & it's factored HP. What is generally forgotten is the original weight for a GT car is figured from the heaviest V-8 combo in the class guide, not the combo you start with. Even though a car/ combo fits in a class the weight you have to run it at is not always at the top of the class. Say a car tops out at 9.33 with the 250 weight out of the original heaviest V-8 shipping weight. Then you are going to have to run it at 9.33 not the top 9.00 when you figure the weight of the combo. I know it was very confusing to me until I studied it.Almost as confusing as the AHFS... :~) __________________ Adger Smith (Former SS) Last edited by Adger Smith; 12-27-2008 at 11:48 PM. Reason: sp

12-28-2008, 01:42 AM	#49
Stewart Way Member Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Atlanta Posts: 476 Likes: 20 Liked 70 Times in 22 Posts	Re: Older Superstock GT cars with scoops Adger In my situation with a 300 hp engine if the car was at 9.33 with 250 lbs out I couldn't legally get there. At 9.33 and 300 hp that would be 2800 lbs. Adding the 250 lbs back would bring you back to the original shipping weight of 3050. So with 300 hp the car would be 2850 at 9.5, 3000 at 10 and 3150 at 10.5. If you lower the HP you fit the classes easier because you have to remove less lbs to change class. Even if you raise the hp to 400 you can still fit 3 classes. Shipping weight in that case would be 3982 ((400 X 9.33) + 250). D would be 3800, E at 4000 and F at 4200. But now you are starting with a shipping weight of 3982 and I doubt anyone would do that in GT. I don't think there is a combo where there is a problem getting to the min weight in 3 classes that has a realistic shipping weight. Jeff T. When I told Warren Barnett I was going to do my AH type car and put it in GT with a 383 he said something like " who would ruin a good Hemi car by doing that". Imagine my smile when I was able to tell him Hale had done it and then this week being able to tell him you are doing it. I'll be watching because mine is still a ways away. Unless you use the 440 and send the 383 to Atlanta.

12-28-2008, 12:14 PM	#50
Jason Member Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 235 Likes: 0 Liked 6 Times in 4 Posts	Re: Older Superstock GT cars with scoops Lets title this thread...."How To Dishonor The Hemi Legend." The Hemi Shootout was a great game while it lasted. Lots of money spent by people who wanted fame. What a shame to see traditional hemi cars downgraded. Maybe SS/GT should be allowed Pro Stock hood scoops so we can move on to the next class destroying rule change.